I'm playing an Elven Bard in a pathfinder port of the Age of Worms and I chose Silent Image as one of my spells.
When the party was involved in a barfight that we needed to escape, I case Silent Image and specified I was crafting an image of a solid bank of fog, like the whole inn was inside a cloud. The DM rolled a Will save for everyone present and we concluded the encounter.
After we got into the street, I used a second casting of Silent Image to put up a sort of "one way curtain" of an empty street. If you passed a certain point, the illusion would have no effect on you, but from the perspective of the bar it seemed as if the street we fled down was empty. Think of a curtain at a theater--- once you passed the threshold the illusion would have no effect, but until then you saw what my Bard wanted you to see and not what was actually there.
During that session, I was allowed those uses but afterward my DM let me know that I shouldn't try to imitate the effects of other spells using Silent Image. I countered that the difference between calling up an illusory fog cloud versus a wizard actually casting Obscuring Mist was pretty large:
Any spell effect I choose to imitate visually using Silent Image has a significant cost associated with it.
1) the spell slot I used to power it.
2) the standard action I used during the casting.
3) everyone that interacts with the illusion gets a Will save to negate it, and could possibly pass on the information that it is false to others, granting them a bonus to their saves.
4) every round I have to concentrate to maintain it.
Mainly points 3 and 4 are the big ones for me: why use illusions at all if you can't create useful illusions? I'd rather use my standard action each turn to attack if the alternative is concentrating on an illusion of something that won't really help my party out.
I suppose this comes down to intent.
The DM has asked me not to try and break the game, whereas I do not see how this is game-breaking. I'm not being obtuse or a munchkin here; I really don't see how illusions can be useful at all if you can't create illusions that have a real effect on the flow of combat. It doesn't seem like it's worth learning if all I can do is create an image of a person or a sword or treasure chest or what have you- those don't really impact anything in battle, and since I'm a Bard I've already got ways to be useful outside a battle.
What I'm asking is this:
How do you resolve illusions? What can they do and not do? Do you have any suggestions for ways to make Silent Image and family useful in combat?
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You may find THIS useful. None of the rules regarding Silent Image have changed from 3.5 to Pathfinder so it should prove useful.
Your first illusion of a fog bank I'd have no problem with. The text of the spell reads:
"This spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force, as visualized by you." I'd say a fog bank would come under the purview of "force".
The second illusion of the 'empty street', I would be leery of. Essentially it is not an object, creature or force. If it isn't one of these things, then silent image can't make it. If you put up an image of an ACTUAL curtain, or a carefully rendered 10 ft/10ft painting of an empty street, that might work.
So ultimately read the spell description, if it's an "object, creature, or force, as visualised by you." Then you're golden.
You're party could just run a bit further duck into some often overlooked alley and you cover the entrance of the alley with a illusionary wall. Fake walls and floors are a staple of Silent Image.
They would take the saving through if they stopped and realized there wasn't something right with that wall. The second they put their hand on it they would succeed automatically.
Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.
A character faced with proof that an illusion isn't real needs no saving throw.
ie. hands do not usually go through walls.
Thank you! That Rules of the Game series really cleared up a lot of things. I think that after reading that, I agree that the second use was not really valid, but the first was. From here out I'll have a much better understanding of how illusions work and how to use them properly (properly in this case meaning: effectively, but within the bounds of the rules).
Creative Director
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When I GM a game and a player uses illusion spells, my general guideline is that no illusion can have an effect that's BETTER than any other spell of the same level. Thus, in order to fake a fireball, you'll need a 3rd level illusion. An illusion of an "empty street" created by a silent image, therefore, I would rule to be about as effective as obscuring mist; the bad guys would know you're in there somewhere but you'd have concealment. And if they made their Will saves, of course, they'd see right through it.
This method's worked pretty well for me, since the versatility an illusion spell grants is pretty much offset by the fact that a Will save negates it when it's duplicating an equal-level spell.
Silent image can only create exactly what you described: a stage curtain with a picture of an empty street on it. It can be photographically perfect, but it cannot have any depth: it will be a two-dimensional image. A simple Perception check - probably DC 10, before adjusting for distance - is enough to be certain that you're not looking at an actual empty street. (Those who fail to disbelieve might think that they're looking at a solid wall with an empty street painted on it, though.)
The reason is:
Figments cannot make something seem to be something else.
"Emptiness" counts as "something else," so you can create a blockade in front of you, but you can't make a void where you're standing.
On a related note, that's why hallucinatory terrain is a higher level than major image: it's a glamer, not a figment. Major image can't create a yawning chasm with magma a hundred feet below, because it can't make the ground disappear.
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When the party was involved in a barfight that we needed to escape, I case Silent Image and specified I was crafting an image of a solid bank of fog, like the whole inn was inside a cloud. The DM rolled a Will save for everyone present and we concluded the encounter.
I'm not totally convinced this works (but if pressed for a ruling I'd give it to you). We should read the Illusion heading of "figment," which is what Silent Image creates:
Figment: A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. It is not a personalized mental impression. Figments cannot make something seem to be something else...
Because figments and glamers are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. Figments and glamers cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding foes, but useless for attacking them directly.
Knowing that Figments cannot produce real effects, I question if it could "block" vision by hiding your presence. On a battlefield, could you duplicate the 2nd level spell Fog Cloud's concealment bonuses by throwing Silent Image in front of you? It is not producing the real effect of actually blocking vision according to the power of a "figment" effect. A "shadow" effect or other more powerful illusion WOULD block vision as they create partially real effects. However, I think that's what the "saving throw" for interaction aspect is. Upon view, everyone gets the Will Save. Failure means they perceive a thick fog, and in their minds, their vision has been affected to view a fog which would grant concealment.
After we got into the street, I used a second casting of Silent Image to put up a sort of "one way curtain" of an empty street.
This is a tougher call as you're not really creating the illusion of one object but rather a severely complex duplication of an entire street, complete with buildings, windows, debris, and who knows what else. In that case, I think you've stepped beyond the 1 figment aspect of this spell into a complex casting suitable for higher level illusions.
Thank you for your replies, everyone!
The series on illusions helped to clarify things quite a bit, and James, your input was very insightful. I'm going to discuss this with my DM when we meet up for our next session and see if we can come to an agreement re: illusions, but saying you can imitate spells of equal spell level seems like a good place to start.
Between that and learning how to read and interpret the stat block of the illusion spells themselves, I think we can avoid frustration from the DM and PC perspective.
Knowing that Figments cannot produce real effects, I question if it could "block" vision by hiding your presence.
I'm not sure I agree with you here. If you can't produce anything that blocks vision with it, it's quite worthless. For example, if I created an illusory wall and everyone could see through it, wouldn't that be enough to make them disbelief? If an illusory box doesn't block the vision of the floor below, wouldn't it be utterly worthless?
Anything that is visible should in some sense block or distort vision, at least if we're talking about anything similiar to the real world's physics. Of course D&D is not the real world, but I think it's a matter of common logic: if you can see perfectly fine behind X, you can't see X. Even a clean glass window distorts sight somewhat, although it's nearly invisible from certain angles.
I think the "not produce real effects" is more that even if you create the illusion of a fireball, the "victims" won't feel pain or suffer any damage.
