I haven't played anything of appreciable level in some time, particularly in a Pathfinder game. How useful are those 2nd, 3rd etc attacks that fighters and such get, given their decreased chance to hit?
I could probably run some numbers, but numbers don't match actual play experience in most cases. I'm mainly concerned because I'm looking at going down the two-weapon fighting tree, and if the high dex and feat requirements for the later don't turn out to be all that viable, I'll look at other options.
Thanks
I haven't played anything of appreciable level in some time, particularly in a Pathfinder game. How useful are those 2nd, 3rd etc attacks that fighters and such get, given their decreased chance to hit?
I could probably run some numbers, but numbers don't match actual play experience in most cases. I'm mainly concerned because I'm looking at going down the two-weapon fighting tree, and if the high dex and feat requirements for the later don't turn out to be all that viable, I'll look at other options.
Thanks
Those later attacks are viable if you're assuming buffs, high-quality magic weapons and the like. I personally prefer playing a high strength rogue to get the sneak attack in for melee - that's a better option for lower levels, which is acceptable in terms of losing that 4th attack when BAB hits +16.
In general, multiple attacks are extremely useful. However, multiple attacks from BAB? That's slightly stickier. The -5 attack? A big boost. The -10 attack? Not so big. -15? Generally irrelevant, more so since you're probably Power Attacking to get more out of your other attacks, plus the full AB attack from Haste.
Now, getting a huge stack of attacks as from a tentacular eidolon? that can be tremendously useful and powerful.
I can tell you that a 2-H full BAB guy is going to do just as much damage as a TWF full BAB guy with a bunch of TWF feats. In fact, usually he'll do more.
If there is some independant damage (like Favored enemy, Sneak attack, or smite evil) that can turn the tide.
In general though, TWF isn't so hot.
Check out the DPR thread for some mathematical comparisons.
I can tell you that a 2-H full BAB guy is going to do just as much damage as a TWF full BAB guy with a bunch of TWF feats. In fact, usually he'll do more.
If there is some independant damage (like Favored enemy, Sneak attack, or smite evil) that can turn the tide.
In general though, TWF isn't so hot.
Check out the DPR thread for some mathematical comparisons.
Actually, I'm looking at it to test out the Cavalier, figuring that those times he is challenging someone, it could be nasty. I'll go through that thread though. Thanks.
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I certainly know that Archery types certainly love their iterative of attacks, even the low BAB one has the potential to hit most opponents.
There is a reasonable "cap" for AC's in the game after all in a lot of situations. It can be forced higher but it's not like 4th edition where your AC is a factor of your level.
I can tell you that a 2-H full BAB guy is going to do just as much damage as a TWF full BAB guy with a bunch of TWF feats. In fact, usually he'll do more.
If there is some independant damage (like Favored enemy, Sneak attack, or smite evil) that can turn the tide.
In general though, TWF isn't so hot.
Check out the DPR thread for some mathematical comparisons.
As for the THF vs. TWF debate, the former unquestionably outclasses the latter, unless you HR in a feat that allows for combining multiple attacks to overcome DR and also allow doubling of all iterative attacks once TWF is bought. Otherwise, the feat-cost is just too darned high. A Dex. fighter should probably go the Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack route in that case IMHO, remaining light on their feet, preferable with some Rogue multi-class to gain Sneak Attacks.FWIW,
Rez
I had done a Inquisitor using 20PB that does 3xx to 5xx in a full attack with 2 Scimitars ( it's an example ), it's not completly created with a formula, but he has +43/+43/+38/+33 ( i think ) to his attacks.
He only needs 2 rounds of preparations.
One issue with TWF feats is that they only help you when using a full atttack action. They are no help on any turn that you have to move more than 5' before attacking, or if you have to otherwise use your move action (e.g to draw your weapons, or Rangers using their Hunters Bond).
Somebody can calculate the Dpr for this character and see if everything is okay?, it's not complete.
Marcus Arengath, Human, Inquisitor of Nethys LN
Life: 8+4.5x19+100 = 193Hp (233hp with Righteous Might and Divine Power)
Atributes
Str 32 / +11 (+5lvl, +5Inh, +6Item)
Dex 22 / + 6 (+6Item, +1Inh)
Con 20 / + 5 (+6Item)
Int 16 / + 3 (+6Item)
Wis 20 / + 5 (+6Item)
Cha 8 / - 1
Base Armor Shield Dex Deflec Natural Sacred
CA: 39 = 10 + 11 + 1 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 3
Saves:
Fort: 26 = 12 + 5 + 5 + 4
Ref: 21 = 6 + 6 + 5 + 4
Will: 26 = 12 + 5 + 5 + 4
Initiative: +11
8 Skill Points / Lvl (6skill points, +1 human, +1favored class)
·Perception
·Stealth
·Knowledge Planes
Arcane
Nature
Dungeoneering
Religion
·Sense Motive
·Survival
·Intimidate
Feats
H Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword)
1 Two-Weapon Fighting
3 Double Slice
5 Power Attack
7 Two-Weapon Defense
9 Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved
11
13
15 Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater
17 Two-Weapon Rend
19
Domain: Destruction
Judgments: Justice, Destruction, Protection
Wealth
2 +1 ghost touch, Keen, Holy, Spell storing, Merciful Bastards Swords 196000
2 Lesser Rod of Extend
With 2 rounds of buffing (Divine Power and Righterius Might) and 3 Swift actions for the bane, the destruction domain and the activation of the Judgments, the result is:
(already casted Greater Heroism and Greater magic Weapon in both swords)
Attack Bonus:
BAB Str Magic Luck Sacred Moral Bane
15 + 13 + 5 + 6 + 3 + 4 + 2 = 48 - 4 - 4 - 1 = 39
+39/+39/+34/+29
+39/+34/+29
Damage Bonus:
W.Dice Str Magic Luck Sacred Moral P.Attack Bane
2d8 + 13 + 5 + 6 + 6 + 10 + 8 + 4d6 = ( 54 to 86 ) x4 = 216 to 364
2d8 + 13 + 5 + 6 + 6 + 10 + 4 + 4d6 = ( 50 to 82 ) x3 = 151 to 246