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I vaguely remembered some rule about mounts with intelligence scores above 2 being treated as NPCs (way back in the 3.5 DMG), and as such, you couldn't make ride checks to control the mount's actions, like negating a hit on it or using it as cover.
I cannot find this rule in Pathfinder, and I wonder, does it still hold true?
I've never seen this rule in PF, but could have missed it.
Mounts with INT 3 or higher can't be trained using Animal Handling, but, there's no reason why they couldn't take Ride skill in order to understand your commands issued via your Ride skill, and as long as they chose to follow those ride commands then you could still make the check to negate the attacks.
EDIT: Of course, I don't think they will be as willing to be used as cover. ;)
I've never seen this rule in PF, but could have missed it.
Mounts with INT 3 or higher can't be trained using Animal Handling, but, there's no reason why they couldn't take Ride skill in order to understand your commands issued via your Ride skill, and as long as they chose to follow those ride commands then you could still make the check to negate the attacks.
EDIT: Of course, I don't think they will be as willing to be used as cover. ;)
Then what happens when you up an animal companions int as you were using him for a mount? Suddenly he loses his ability to act as a mount because he doesn't have ride skill?
Then what happens when you up an animal companions int as you were using him for a mount? Suddenly he loses his ability to act as a mount because he doesn't have ride skill?I've never seen this rule in PF, but could have missed it.
Mounts with INT 3 or higher can't be trained using Animal Handling, but, there's no reason why they couldn't take Ride skill in order to understand your commands issued via your Ride skill, and as long as they chose to follow those ride commands then you could still make the check to negate the attacks.
EDIT: Of course, I don't think they will be as willing to be used as cover. ;)
No reason you can't buy them ride skill at earlier levels, you do get to spend his skill points.
No reason you can't buy them ride skill at earlier levels, you do get to spend his skill points.Then what happens when you up an animal companions int as you were using him for a mount? Suddenly he loses his ability to act as a mount because he doesn't have ride skill?I've never seen this rule in PF, but could have missed it.
Mounts with INT 3 or higher can't be trained using Animal Handling, but, there's no reason why they couldn't take Ride skill in order to understand your commands issued via your Ride skill, and as long as they chose to follow those ride commands then you could still make the check to negate the attacks.
EDIT: Of course, I don't think they will be as willing to be used as cover. ;)
Which is dumb. He has no use for this skill and can do everything fine, until he gets smarter and understands you.
Which is dumb. He has no use for this skill and can do everything fine, until he gets smarter and understands you.
I'll assume you mean having to do it is dumb, not that I or my suggestion of how to handle it is dumb?
The problem goes back to INT and how animals are defined as 1 or 2 and sentient as 3+. But that is a core rules thing, and couldn't be fixed without redoing the core.
The best way I've seen it handled is in Shadowrun, animals have a twin stat for intelligence. Intelligence and Instinct. Instinct is their 'Intelligence' when using any skill they have naturally (tracking, using their native abilities, combat tactics, etc). Intelligence is only used for things like being trained, playing fetch, figuring out things that aren't natural (like a raccoon working with human door latches).
what I mean is that he has no problems until he gets smart, and then he loses the abilities he had because he got smart. Getting smart should never make you know less.
Mounts with INT 3 or higher can't be trained using Animal Handling[..]
Really? A griffon (from the Bestiary) has 5 Int and it says:
"Before it can be ridden in combat, a griffon requires practice
bearing the weight of its rider. In order to be trained
successfully, a griffon must first be helpful toward its trainer
(possibly requiring a Diplomacy, Intimidate, or Handle
Animal check). After that, 6 weeks of practice and a
successful DC 20 Handle Animal check is sufficient for the
beast to be comfortable with its burden, and due to their
intelligence, trained griffons can be treated as knowing every
trick listed in the Handle Animal skill description, possibly
even responding to new, simple requests made in Common."
My two cents: to use an intelligent creature as a mount still requires a Handle Animal check of some kind. I'd use the griffon rules as a guideline.
Yeah considering the Paladin's mount starts with an Int of 6 and nothing anywhere in the book suggests that you can't have an intelligent mount tells me that if there was something like this in 3.5 it was left out on purpose.
what I mean is that he has no problems until he gets smart, and then he loses the abilities he had because he got smart. Getting smart should never make you know less.
I don't know, I could see it. Imagine, you have no sentience, no self awareness, no knowledge beyond a few rote memorized tricks and some instincts.
Now, imagine you suddenly develop sentience! The whole world used to be a very neat and orderly place by comparison. Now you've got all these thoughts racing through your brain, and it's confusing and you're having to learn all the things you used to know that you know aren't the same anymore.
I would imagine it would be like having a disability, such as being mentally retarded, and then add on lame and blind on top of it. Then overnight you suddenly are healed completely. You can see when you've never seen before, your IQ jumps from 60 to 120 and you can run the 300 yard dash in 10 seconds. Everything you'd learned before would have to be revalidated, relearned, etc.
what I mean is that he has no problems until he gets smart, and then he loses the abilities he had because he got smart. Getting smart should never make you know less.I don't know, I could see it. Imagine, you have no sentience, no self awareness, no knowledge beyond a few rote memorized tricks and some instincts.
Now, imagine you suddenly develop sentience! The whole world used to be a very neat and orderly place by comparison. Now you've got all these thoughts racing through your brain, and it's confusing and you're having to learn all the things you used to know that you know aren't the same anymore.
I would imagine it would be like having a disability, such as being mentally retarded, and then add on lame and blind on top of it. Then overnight you suddenly are healed completely. You can see when you've never seen before, your IQ jumps from 60 to 120 and you can run the 300 yard dash in 10 seconds. Everything you'd learned before would have to be revalidated, relearned, etc.
Except all your old habits are still ingrained instinct
Except all your old habits are still ingrained instinct
But your new abilities are interfering with them. Imagine the blind person who suddenly see's. They are used to using their hearing, but now they use their sight, and the conflict between the two actually make it harder.