Ok, so my group has a campaign on the horizon and everyone but myself has decided on what class they'll be playing. I'd really love some help deciding on which path to follow.
- We'll be playing in the scarred lands, where death is permanent.
- Each player will be given a homebrewed elemental template for free.
- My DM hates the system's dependency on magic items, and as such magic items are far and few between. This is mitigated by a very high powered rolling system (1d10+8, overall bonus no lower than +8).
- Characters begin at 7th level.
- Because of the setting, an elemental infused person is VERY unlikely to worship any of the gods (ala clerics, paladins, & oracles) and would instead worship one of the titans (druids & rangers).
- None of our characters have chosen a class that can provide realistic healing capabilities, and I have volunteered to take leadership at 7th level so the DM will provide us with a party healer. This character is completely support, and will provide little to nothing in combat.
Now, each member of our group will be one of the 4 elementals and descended from one of the genie races. I'm heavily leaning towards fire, but the choices are largely flavor-related. The only real difference between the 4 elements is that each receives a resistance to their element (10+1/2 HD), a minor bonus (air = breathless, levitate @will. water = swim 60, water breathing, earth = tremorsense 30, +1 NA. fire = +5 land speed, double or negate nonmagical fire at will, scorching ray 1/day + 1/5 levels).
Our group currently consists of: an Air Elemental Sorcerer, a Fighter, a Barbarian, and a Warlock (3.5e). With the leadership feat we'll also have a cleric/oracle/favored soul (3.5e) running around with us as well.
We have open availability (within reason) to WotC 3.5 material, but I'd prefer to stay as close to core as possible. I really wanna try out the new system, you know? Some options are simply too good to pass up (like Knowledge Devotion for a bard), so they aren't negated. I'd prefer not to go into any prestige classes, but I'm open to all suggestions.
Now, after looking at it all, I think I've narrowed my choices down to 3 classes: Bard, Druid, and Ranger. Bard would be an archery based character, Druid would be spellcasting focused, and Ranger would be a Switch Hitter for maximum flexibility. There is going to be some plane hopping, so the ranger would focus on elemental favored enemies & terrains. I realize that, archery wise, ranger & bard are on par with damage & attack, but bards take a while to really get into the swing of things with archery. I'd be down for a melee based bard, but I'm not sure. Druid seems like a really fun choice, and it would provide a lot of bonuses to the party with its wide spellcasting abilities. I also have access to the spell compendium for some druid spells, but my DM limits that stuff pretty strictly (a lot of it is totally borked).
So, that's the jist of it. I really appreciate any insight and advice you can offer.
Well i know you said you didnt want a prestige class, but the setting you described seems like the perfect place to play a horizon walker(3.5dmg) or the new pathfinder chronicler. The horizin walker would probly be a ranger and the pathfinder a bard. Also sounds like your party could really use a skiller, doesnt sound like you have any so a bard/pathfinder would really rock that slot. But also you rolled some totaly rocking stats, to me that always screams monk. And at 7th level a monk starts to catch up, also if you have acess to book of exalted deeds and alow magic item enviroment you could always see if your GM will let you take the vow of poverty feat. If so then monk sounds even better. Also the earth elemental bonus is stupendously awesome, tremorsense is great and really hard to get, for a pc. Also are those half elemental boni on top of racial mods?
I hadn't considered the horizon walker, or the monk to be honest. I tend to shy away from lawfully inclined characters because I play more chaotic than not, but now that I think on it...
Also, yes, the elemental template is applied to a base race (pathfinder only), so it could be as high a +4/+4 with two stat bonuses.
I need to look into the horizon walker.
Bard is a perfect 5th party member.
Bard is a perfect 5th party member.
I really can't tell if you're being snarky.
Nope, I'm perfectly serious. Bards are designed in such a way that they're suboptimal in a 4 person party (since they can't fill any of the 4 "required" roles well) but awesome in any party size past that (since they can back up two or three roles all by themselves and provide excellent stacking party-wide buffs).
First of all, choosing a class is not as important as choosing a role in your party. Each class can (generally) fill a number of different roles. Taking into account the class selections I'll make some assumptions and say you have two melee characters (fighter & barbarian), a blasting caster (sorcerer), and a ranged damage dealer (warlock).
For you your party I would recommend a utility caster: cleric, druid, or wizard. You have already said that cleric is out, so either it's casting druid or a wizard. They both have their advantages, but given your party make up the druid is the better choice. First off, you will not need leadership to get a healer (I have never seen leadership being used as anything other than a roleplaying feat, cohorts and henchmen end up being too fragile to take anywhere dangerous so unless you plan on doing a lot of mass combat bringing them places usually leads to quickly racking up lots of cumulative leadership penalties). Also, you will have access to a completely different spell list from the sorcerer, which expands the party's casting versatility (either one of you will be able to cast it or find a scroll/wand to use).
As for building advice, dump STR and CHA, put the high score in WIS, then pump DEX and WIS. Take the domain instead of an animal companion and use wildshape to make yourself an uninviting target. Spells should focus on buffs and battlefield control, as well as whatever noncombat needs might arise.
I hadn't considered the horizon walker, or the monk to be honest. I tend to shy away from lawfully inclined characters because I play more chaotic than not, but now that I think on it...
Also, yes, the elemental template is applied to a base race (pathfinder only), so it could be as high a +4/+4 with two stat bonuses.
I need to look into the horizon walker.
That's an even stronger arguement for monk then, but if your not lawfully inclined then the horizon walker presents itself because you will probly never have as fitting a campiagn for it as the one you described, but also with all those stats a skill rogue presents it self as well. Or if you want monk awesomeness plus a little chaos plus some bonus awesome how about the drunken master prestige class from 3.5 complete warrior? I dont know how your GM converts skill rank requirements to pathfinder, we go -3 since 3.5 character could acheive the same rank 3 levels earlier. If your gm has a similiar interpretaion then you could take a rank or 3. And with you huge stats you could afford it and the tremorsense bonuse whould make your drunk monk beyon awesome.
Actually im jealous i want those stats, and that campaign.
Bard is a perfect 5th party member.
To be more specific, an archer bard build.
Or a Bard/Ranger multiclass :)
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I wold agre with the bard being the best class. I'm going to give you the best example of what the bard can do. Bard level 7 one round ( move action Inspire Courage + 2 to hit damage and save vs fear standard action one of two spells ( Good Hope + 2 to hit, damage, saves, and skills or haste +30ft to your base speed + 1 to hit AC and ref save. +1 attack when using a full base attack ). So in one round you can have a +4 to hit +4 damage +2 save +2 skills. Or + 3 hit +2 damage +1 AC +1 attack with full attack +30 ft speed. With this you can get the bard to the same to hit as the fighter or Barbarian and put them 3 to 4 points higher then normal. Let me know if you know of any other classes that can make the party that much better? Just rember your there to back up the party its a lack luster job. Done right it makes the party as a hole that much better.
When the DM says "Magic items will be rare"
This should translate in your head to, "Make a spellcaster"
I agree Bard is a good choice (the best of those you are considering I think).
Druid would be a very good choice.
Wizard would also be really good (although you didn't mention it specifically as an option you were considering).
When Magic Items are rare - your worst choices are: Fighter, Monk, Rogue and Barbarian.
Paladins and Rangers won't be much better off.
Oh - and make sure that follower has Item creation feats!!!
Does your DM tailor encounters for the party? So if it's mostly tanks, it's mostly fighting; if there are no rogues, there aren't a lot of locks and death traps; if there are lots of rogues, not tons of things immune to sneak attack, etc.?
If you're going for support and starting at 7th level, I'd suggest Dragon Shaman (+2 Auras, 3d6 breath weapon, decent tank, Cha x2 x7 Lay on Hands, etc.). They also fit the elemental theme of the campaign.
Alternatively, you lack a skill-monkey, so a Rogue, Scout, Ninja, Spellthief, Bard, or Ranger might be a good idea.
I played an elven druid archer once that was super-versatile.
Hey, sorry there haven't been any replies from me- I was gone all this last week. Anyways, to answer a few questions:
*Wizard, while one of my favorite classes, is out because I spent the last 2.5 years playing one and I'd rather diversify.
*The DM tailors encounters to our party VERY well, since the last campaign we ran was wholly without a rogue and we saw perhaps 2 traps the entire time.
*In the last campaign I played a wizard who took condensed crafting feats (the DM grouped them into about 4 feats total) and didn't hardly use them until the very high levels. Magic items, and loot in general, are pretty damn rare- rare enough that I didn't really have enough money to even craft the items.
*While I don't mind dipping into older material to pull feats or spells, I'd rather play one of the new core classes (or advanced player's classes) to really test out the new system.
So, what I'm hearing is to go either Monk (more melee), Druid (for an additional caster), or Bard (for support, ranged damage, and skills). As awesome as monk is (and it is, I toyed with a build or two) I don't think the party needs another combatant crowding up melee.
So I guess it's sitting between Bard & Druid. What do people think of something like an Oracle? My DM has given the go-ahead on the new alpha material so long as I update as the updates come. I figure it wouldn't be hard to spin the fluff that my character, while not worshipping a specific god, is instead channeling the elemental magic of his heritage plane.
I haven't gotten a chance to fool around with the Oracle, but it seems pretty solid- Solid enough to play backup to a party without a divine caster. Thoughts?
Witch and oracle are both solid enough for use. Either of those would be fine.
Bard (for support, ranged damage, and skills) or Druid (for an additional caster). You sayed it your self your group is mostly melee. The Bard will help the group the most.
The group is *half* melee, half spellcaster (sorcerer & warlock). Bard would help them kinda, but with the way a bard works now it seems like I can either spend my time helping the weapon users (inspire courage) OR spend my time helping the casters by lowering saving throws (dirge of doom).
Spells & feats will let me do both at the same time, but it's still kinda teh suck.
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wizard? no that's out.
cleric? out.
druid? -good spellcasting, access to healing and item crafting if it turns out the be necessary in the late game. domain ftw, and have fun with plants. my personal recomendation, especially with the air bloodline.
bard? very nice class, one of my personal favorites. if you like to buff, lie, cheat, steal, and get the girl, go bard.
rogue? i love the PF rogue. it's almost as good an improvement as the PF fighter. can't touch the druid or bard, though.
Druid? with +4 to wis, +2 to con, human everything else, air elemental, some other elemental domain spellcasting druid. you will rock face and love the game, as will everyone else at the table (maybe not the DM, but hey...).
-t
Bard (for support, ranged damage, and skills) or Druid (for an additional caster). You sayed it your self your group is mostly melee. The Bard will help the group the most.The group is *half* melee, half spellcaster (sorcerer & warlock). Bard would help them kinda, but with the way a bard works now it seems like I can either spend my time helping the weapon users (inspire courage) OR spend my time helping the casters by lowering saving throws (dirge of doom).
Spells & feats will let me do both at the same time, but it's still kinda teh suck.
So go witch, take evil eye and ability focus it. The DC will be good, and you have spells to fall back on too. If you take the Warding Hex you can also help your tank be a bit more beefy. Tongues would be generally useful in the outer planes (so you can talk with what you meet).