So, after following the "How is the fighter better" someone raised a good question. What would you like to see in Fighter?
Personally, I think anything new to fighter can be added through feats, though I know there are some differences of opinion here.
So I have a question. What new Fighter-centric feats would people like to see? They don't have to be limited to fighter though some might be.
Here are a few ideas that sparked mine:
- Strategy. A mechanic that would allow our seasoned warrior to always know (or often at least) what is the best way to apprach a given challenge. Kind of a magicless divination ability that would reflect the good old ¨If my experince in battle had taught me something in battle is that...¨
- Protection. This one has been discussed a lot, the ability to efectively protect and take hits for others in the party. Ironically enought right now I am running a group through ¨The pact stone pramid¨ and they got some magical effect that allows them to pool their HP together, which made everyone thankfull of the fighters HP focus.
- Impression. In real life people with high military training and skills tend to be at least somehow imposing (good or bad is irrelevant) or striking in person. Anyone who sees someone as skilled as a fighter in combat should have no choice but to respect and be more easily inluenced by him. I use this as a mechanic on my homebrew and it does give the fighter a bit more to do outside of combat.
I love the Protection one, and think that a feat that funcitoned like the PH2 Knight ability (split damage with an adjecent ally) would be good. Or perhaps one that lets you substitute your AC for an allies using an AoO.
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If feats are the way you feel this should go then I will contribute.
For protection when i think about it keeping someone safe when they are right next to you is much easier than when they are 30ft behind, so that should be simple.
Human Shield (Combat)
Prerequisite: Fighter lvl 6, Toughness
At the beggining of your turn you may select one ally that is on a square adjacent to yours. At any point until the beggining of your next turn you may as an immediate action position yourself in order to absorb half the damage that ally would take from a single attack or source.
A greater version of it would be available later (around lvl 10) where it is for the duration of the round instead of one attack. Don´t feel like doing the wording right now for it thou hehe.
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I would like see some of the following available as fighter only feats:
Armor specialization and greater armor specialization: both giving a plus 1 bonus to armor class when wearing suit of the specified armor. It should have level requirements (maybe 6th for specialization and 12th for greater?)
Trained vs magic: choose a school of magic. The fighter gets a +2 bonus on saves against spells of this school. Perhaps and improved version that gives them a +4, and MAYBE a greater version that gives them SR against spells of that school. I would not allow them to take these feats multiple times for different schools. One school period. This would give them a better chance against certain casters, but not all casters.
Shield defender: allows the fighter to transfer his shield bonus to an adjacent ally. The fighter would lose the benefit of his shield while operating in this mode and would maybe take an attack roll penalty (not sure if losing the AC is enough)
Body Guard: As a standard action the fighter may choose to guard an adjacent ally. If that ally is subject to an attack that requires an attack roll the fighter may attempt a CMB roll against the attacker. If this roll is successful then the fighter is hit instead of his ward. And improved version could also exist that perhaps gave a +2 to these rolls and granted the fighter an AoO against the opponent if it was in reach for each attack against his ward.
Extreme willpower: This feat would allow the fighter once per day as a move action to shrug off debilitating conditions. I was thinking something along the lines of one condition is affected per x fighter levels (Me thinks x should =5). The effects are suspended for a very limited time. I am think thinking of something tiered such as 1 round at low levels and maybe as high as 3 rounds. Could also do something like 1/2 con bonus (rounded down) rounds. The fighter should also gain the fatigued or exhausted condition after this suppression ends (I am not sure which one is appropriate but I think that after such an extreme exertion of will there should be a penalty) for the remainder of the combat. I also think that some conditions should =not be able to be suppressed (like being on fire for example), and would have no effect on conditions that cause the fighter to lose control of his character. Negative conditions with an effect of longer than tis ability would, of course, resume upon its completion.
I could think of more, but those are the ones that immediately spring to mind. I did not really go into prerequisites with those feats. But I am of the opinion that all of them should at least have fighter level requirements, and perhaps additional ones as well. Those are also very rough draft types of feats. I make no claims of balance, they are just concepts that popped into mind.
love,
malkav
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Withstand: A fighter can substitute a Fort save vs a spell or spell-like effect that requires a reflex save for half damage.
Improved Withstand: If the fighter makes the fort save, he takes no damage instead of half damage.
Greater Withstand: Just like Improved Withstand, except if the fighter fails the fort save, he takes half damage.
Yes, I modeled this after Evasion. The fighter would try to tough out the fireball/breath weapon instead of diving out of the way.
This could also be a class ability, but it would work exactly like Evasion, so there is only Improved Withstand (called Withstand) and Greater Withstand (called Improved Withstand). Endurance could also be required as a prerequisite.
When thinking of this, I was imagining John McClain getting blown across the room/airport in an explosion, standing up and saying something like "Is that all you got."
I think that fighters in PF have gotten a major boost on the power curve. I also believe that have the most room to wiggle as far as what they want to do (eg. polearm, TWF, sword and shield fighting).
What I do not like is that people feel the need to add supernatural abilites or once an encounter abilities to make their fighter be better at combat. Do all the feats help? Absolutely. We should not focus on abilities to make the fighter greater, rather focus on tactical play to bring out the essence of the fighter. There is no ability that covers up stupity in combat.
Stand Still.......
Benefit:If you are a fighter this feat affects any square within your threat range.
Stand Still as written is really no better than Improved Trip.
The Inquisitor tactical feats are all very fightery. I like the idea of sharing shield bonuses. That seems like something a fighter trained in squad tactics should be able to do. And it makes more sense than taking damage for other people. Much saner to prevent it. The feat giving precision damage for flanking opponents is also applicable to fighters.
The Inquisitor tactical feats are all very fightery. I like the idea of sharing shield bonuses. That seems like something a fighter trained in squad tactics should be able to do. And it makes more sense than taking damage for other people. Much saner to prevent it. The feat giving precision damage for flanking opponents is also applicable to fighters.
How about a feat that allows you to make an AoO with your shield against the other person's attack roll when they make an attack against someone adjacent to you. Similar to the ride check from mounted combat.
As far as the tactical feats are concerned, how about one that lets tomeone without tactical feats use the benefit of the Fighter's feat, but the fighter forgoes his.
example: The fighter has the tactical feat that lets him get +2 more when flanking, but his flanking partner doesn't. He can give his partner the +2, but does not get it himself. Kind of the oposite of the inquisitor.
Withstand: A fighter can substitute a Fort save vs a spell or spell-like effect that requires a reflex save for half damage.
Improved Withstand: If the fighter makes the fort save, he takes no damage instead of half damage.
Greater Withstand: Just like Improved Withstand, except if the fighter fails the fort save, he takes half damage.Yes, I modeled this after Evasion. The fighter would try to tough out the fireball/breath weapon instead of diving out of the way.
This could also be a class ability, but it would work exactly like Evasion, so there is only Improved Withstand (called Withstand) and Greater Withstand (called Improved Withstand). Endurance could also be required as a prerequisite.
When thinking of this, I was imagining John McClain getting blown across the room/airport in an explosion, standing up and saying something like "Is that all you got."
I think the feat should have toughness as a prerequisite, and perhaps ranged weapon proficiency police car?
Anyway, I like the idea, I think that In terms of the strategy side of things a feat tree something like this is in order:
Evaluate Defenses
Prequisite: Fighter Level 5, Perception 5 Ranks
Benefit: A fighter can make a perception check against a dc of an enemy's CR + 5. If successful the Fighter knows the DR, Immunities and Weaknesses of an enemy (if any).
Know your enemy:
Prequisite: Fighter Level 5, Perception 5 Ranks
Benefit: A fighter can make a perception check against a dc of an enemy's CR + 5. If successful, the fighter knows the special attacks an enemy has (if any).
Turn knowledge skills from really bad to completly worthless? :)
Maybe in your campaign. I can't tell you how many times I've seen skills like Knowledge:chocolate, alcohol, or carnies have come in handy. Heck, I've even seen Batorian Pastry rolls made. :)
So, I'm reviving this thread in light of the new Fighter thread, because I came up with some more ideas, inspired by MiB's complaints about missing skills.
1. Like the Wind.
prereq: Spring Attack, BAB 15.
You may move your normal move speed and make an attack against each opponent that comes within your reach. This attack is at your highest BAB and the movement provokes AoO as normal. If any opponent hits you, you may make no further attacks.
(not sure if this should be normal movement or double move)
2. Dazzling Critical
prereq: Dazling Display, Critical Focus
After a successful critical hit, you may make a dazzling display as a swift (free maybe) action
Still not sure what to do to make the fighter into a tactician/ leader of men.
Expect the Unexpected:
prerequs: not sure yet
If an opponent would normally be flat footed against you and is not because of a class or racial feature, you may still apply effects as if they were flat footed. They still retain their full AC.
Note: This would allow you to apply things like Sneak Attack or Deadly Strike even if the opponent has uncanny dodge against you. I think the prereqs should put it arround a lvl 15 ability.
I'm pretty much okay with what a fighter can do in combat with the possible exception of low mobility.
Vital Strike and it's kin help a ton but so much of the power of the fighter is tied up in doing full attacks every round. However full attacks every round aren't always realistic unless you are an archer.
If there was a feat chain that allowed you to make full attack actions with > than 5' movement that would go a long way towards improving the class. You could do it on a limited use basis (although that might get uncomfortably close to fightan magic for some people) or you could simply increase the range of 5' steps by some factor.
Example:
Ringing Blows (Combat)
Your relentless blows can drive your foes before you.
Prerequisite: BAB + 6, Dodge, Mobility
Benefit: Instead of being limited to a 5' step as a part of a full attack action the character can take a take a penalty of -2 to AC and extend their 5' step to 10'
Tide of Iron (Combat)
Your strength of arms crushes the meager defenses of your foes.
Prerequisite: BAB + 12, Ringing Blows, Dodge, Mobility
Benefit: Instead of being limited to a 5' step as a part of a full attack action the character can take a take a penalty of -2 to AC and extend their 5' step to 15'
Lamentations of the Weak (Combat)
Your mighty blows send your enemies to their final resting place.
Prerequisite: BAB +16, Ringing Blows, Tide of Iron, Dodge, Mobility
Instead of being limited to a 5' step as a part of a full attack action the character can take a take a penalty of -2 to AC and extend their 5' step to 20'
I'd also like feats that can be used to improve the out of combat options of fighters more. Maybe a feat that improves the amount of skill points that the fighter in a manner similar to Toughness.
Versatile
Your experiences have exposed you to a variety of life skills.
Benefit: You gain +1 Skill Point. For every Hit Die you possess beyond 3, you gain an additional skill point. If you have more than 3 HD, you gain +1 hit point whenever you gain a Hit Dice (such as when you gain a level). Note this feat stacks with the Human Racial Ability and the +1 Skill Point Favored Class Ability.
With something like versatile, favored class, the human racial ability, and a 12 int the skill fighter could have 6 skill point per level which would definitely increase his noncombat utility for not that much of a hit to his combat strength.
I really don't have a problem with the fighter, well, fighting.
I would like to see some class abilities/tactical feats for fighters only that boost other people:
(Disclaimer: my names suck, but I'm not feeling very creative right now)
Hold the Line
Benefit: Adjacent allies may use your CMD in place of their own.Get their Attention
Benefit: Adjacent allies attacking an opponent in meele you have hit in meele this round count as having the opponent flat-footed.Protect the Mage
Benefit: Adjacent allied spellcaster making a concentration check to cast in meele automatically succeeds.Range to Target
Benefit: Adjacent allies attacking an opponent at range you have hit at range this round count as having the opponent flat-footed.Fall Back
Benefit: Adjacent allies may exchange positions with you as a swift action.Not on MY Watch
Benefit: All nearby allies may use your perception check to avoid being surprised.On your Feet
Benefit: Adjacent allies may stand from prone as a free action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity
A lot of these sound like the new tactical feats. I would make Protect the mage not auto-success, but any enemy who attempts to break their concentration provokes an AoO. If you hit, they don't get theirs against the mage. You may treat your position as the mages for this purpose (so you can attack people on the other side)
Get their attention sounds too much like the greater feint, which I think doesn't get enough love.
The most important role of the fighter for me is to protect his colleagues from close combat. Right now the Fighter can't do that to well.
The solution could be that there should be a tree of feats that improve the opportunity attacks of the fighter, imposing status effects like slowing or end of movement.
Also the Fighter for me is the archetypical Leader - Feats that bore up the Leadership Feat would be a big plus.
BUT, it will be hard to balance the Fighter via feats because it's hard to do very good feats that aren't OP'ed because, as a rule, feats are always available - there are no "use once per day" feats. Unless feats will be introduced that have a limitation in this form they always must be "weak" enough to justify their "at will" usage, meaning that they can never be too "flashy".
So I think many of the complaint sstem from the fact that the Fighter is maybe the least "flashy" PC class.