So, we've several optimization guides, and several discussions about how a given character archetype/class/build will wipe its excretory organs with a fully buffed Balor and three days of its summons using all its loot. (Well, not really, but, enough people are reading it that way).
I have a challenge then.
Your party leader is Turgul The Spry:
15 point build
STR 10, DEX 12, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 14, CHA 16
20th level
Ranger 7, Bard 4, Mystic Theurge 9.
Stat bumps go to CON (+2) and DEX (+3)
Your challenge:
Find four party members that are legal builds, and don't make Turgul look like a sack of horse manure in comparison. :)
(Can you optimize for teh suck?)
Grimble the Grumpy
20th level Dwarven Wizard (Crossbow/Ray Spell Specialist)
Str 10
Dex 14
Con 18
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 6
Stat bumps go to Dex (+4) and Con (+2)
(Grimble skimmed a wizard optimizing thread and heard dex and con was good, especially for ray casters. To bad he forgot to read that he couldn't cast higher then 2nd level spells with that low int. Oh well... at least he has scorching ray!!)
Though do mind, Grimble is a tome and a headband away from being a fully-functional Wizard with 19 Int.
Hm. Lessee. Ranger/Bard/MT. That's a BAB of 14. Maybe a few bonus archery feats, though the Dex is crummy. He does actually get 5th-level Bard spells and the ability to use them, which is something. Oh, and 4th-level Ranger spells. Skills are diluted, but potentially significant. So... we're definitely at 'teh suck,' but not completely devoid of assets.
Well, here's an easy one.
Riven the Elder
Halfling Adept20, old (+2 Int/Wis/Cha, -3 Str/Dex/Con from age, +2 Dex/Cha, -2 Str from race)
Str 3
Dex 10
Con 8
Int 10
Wis 19
Cha 16
With level-up, +5 to wisdom. Riven is a good caster for an adept, but Adept casting isn't all that great. Although he's a better caster than Turgul, he's also far frailer, with a far narrower skill selection, and severe strength issues, and he's only getting 5th-level spells, same as Turgul.
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Accepting the joinging with the Fearless Turgul and Grimble is one of the most diverse characters in existence, Mountous.
Montonius Fuji, Level 20 Failure
Str: 8
Int: 9
Wis: 9
Dex: 13
Con: 20
Chr: 9
Ability advances: Con +5
Human Monk 1 / Cleric 3 / Bard 1 / Sorceror 3 / Wizard 3 / Oracle 1 / Witch 2 / Druid 1 / Rogue 1 / Pathfinder Chronicler 1
/ ShadowDancer 1 / Dragon Disciple 1 / Mystic Theurge 1 / Peasent 1
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Enlarge Spell, Empower Spell, Skill Focus (Knowledge,: Engineering),
Toughness, Skill Focus: Appraise
Specialities: Sun domain, plant domain, Dragon path, universal specialty wizard, fire specialty oracle, hexes, fat pet wolf (Snuffles)
Attacks: Bab: +5 - +5 Holy LongSword (+9 hit, +11 vs Evil.... damage 1d8+4, +2d6+2 vs Evil)
Belt of Fortitude +6 (+6 Con)
Inherent +5 (wishes)
Final Stat: Con - 36
HP: 11d8 + 7d6 + 1d12 + 1d4 380 = 458 HP
Back story: Montious started his life as a humble monk, learning a lot about religion at the monestary. Too much in fact, he decided that despite the inability to cast spells he would pursue the true church (which was a good thing, as the fattest man who ever existed he was quickly running the monestary out of money). He loved hearing the tales at the monestary, so much so that he decided to go and tell them himself, becoming a bard. His regal tales talked much of dragons and great magic, so much so he convinced himself that he was a magic-casting dragon. He tried this for a while, but couldn't actually cast any real spells; so he decided to spend what was left of his money and join a school for wizards. During his time at the school for wizards, he had a vision of his greatness, and decided to figure out its meaning, becoming an Oracle. Whenever people would come to him for a fortune telling, he would start to curse at them, and became so good at these curses he graduated into being a witch. Well, living in the woods got him to appreciate nature, and he eventually adapted it, becoming a druid and raising a wolf almost as fat as he. But he missed the city life and the delicious foods there, so he moved back; but without money, he had no choice but to rob people in an attempt to feed himself. He robbed the necessary components to become a chronicler, took them in and with their approval, started to make money as a book writer. His writings however, received much criticism for being "remarkably stupid", so he decided to take up dancing; he figured with his talent as a bard it was a natural fit. But the dancing didn't work, he being so fat and all, so he remembered his old days as a Dragon, and returned to them. This brought back all of his memories of the great magics, and he decided to fuse the two magics he could never cast in the first place and become a mighty Mystic Theurge. Finally, he decided to screw it all and just spend his life as a peasent.
He is pleased as punch to finally be given a chance to prove his might, and is happy to bring his mighty +5 Holy Long Sword in thier great quest to defeat the Ancient Green Dragon. He was told it was a bit easy for champions of their stallor, but he figures to start small and work his way up.
Human Monk 1 / Cleric 3 / Bard 1 / Sorceror 3 / Wizard 3 / Oracle 1 / Witch 2 / Druid 1 / Rogue 1 / Pathfinder Chronicler 1
/ ShadowDancer 1 / Dragon Disciple 1 / Mystic Theurge 1 / Peasent 1
Pure awesome!!!
Pure awesome!!!Human Monk 1 / Cleric 3 / Bard 1 / Sorceror 3 / Wizard 3 / Oracle 1 / Witch 2 / Druid 1 / Rogue 1 / Pathfinder Chronicler 1
/ ShadowDancer 1 / Dragon Disciple 1 / Mystic Theurge 1 / Peasent 1
~laughter~ Agreed! Jack of all trades, but total non-master of anything?
I gotta admit, that's impressive.
I think I should've specified that to qualify, you actually have to make an 'optimal' suboptimal build - someone who has stats that line up with his major class (so an INT 12 Wizard doesn't quite work).
EG, if you take a class, you're trying to be good at it, for some bizaree definition of good. :)
I think I'd also limit it to "Adventuring" classes. The goal here is that if we can find a party that fits Turgul, we stat them out and set them up as a set of pre-gen characters for an April Fools Release.
Which means that some group of players might actually end up playing them...
~laughter~ Agreed! Jack of all trades, but total non-master of anything?Pure awesome!!!Human Monk 1 / Cleric 3 / Bard 1 / Sorceror 3 / Wizard 3 / Oracle 1 / Witch 2 / Druid 1 / Rogue 1 / Pathfinder Chronicler 1
/ ShadowDancer 1 / Dragon Disciple 1 / Mystic Theurge 1 / Peasent 1
Yikes! There's no way the Pathfinders accept him into the organization. ;-)
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I once built a level 20 character made up of as many 3.5 splat classes as I could think of.
I think he had levels in ninja, dwarven defender, scout and knight. So he got sneak attack when his opponents were flat-footed, but couldn't take advantage of it, and got bonuses when he moved and when he stood still, but was also penalized when he moved, and when he stood still. He got bonuses for wearing armor, and bonuses for not wearing armor. He had several defining class features that were completely negated by wearing armor, but could cast arcane spells in medium armor without penalty.
He could also inspire courage. Which I'd imagine anyone seeing this poor bastard would be filled with. "If he can do it, I can do it too!"
God rest his soul. All of his saves were 20+ though.
EDIT:
He could also wield the katana, as a class feature from the samurai class.
His name was Amazo. I want to try to play him one day.
The forums just ate my post - so here's the abbreviated version:
Wizard 20.
All skills professions and Crafts - wildly useful ones like Profession (Toothbrush repair) and Craft (artistic hedge trimming)
All feats skill focus on the various crafts and professions.
Spellbook: Nothing useful in combat. Hordes of spells like Secret Page, all the symbols, Plant shape I etc.
Equipment: A bunch of pearls of power - granting lots of castings of all his useless spells, but no ability to cast spells not on his useless list.
Arcane Bond: A giant ornate glass masterwork orb - extremely fragile. (Crafted with his own Craft (Glassblowing) skill!!!)
The forums just ate my post - so here's the abbreviated version:
Wizard 20.
All skills professions and Crafts - wildly useful ones like Profession (Toothbrush repair) and Craft (artistic hedge trimming)
All feats skill focus on the various crafts and professions.
Spellbook: Nothing useful in combat. Hordes of spells like Secret Page, all the symbols, Plant shape I etc.
Equipment: A bunch of pearls of power - granting lots of castings of all his useless spells, but no ability to cast spells not on his useless list.
Arcane Bond: A giant ornate glass masterwork orb - extremely fragile. (Crafted with his own Craft (Glassblowing) skill!!!)
Are all his spells written into his spellbook in red ink?
Ragebottom The Angry Gnome Singer
Barbarian 5/ Bard 5 / Shadowdancer 10
Stats:
Str 12
Dex 10
Con 13
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 16
His perform is wind but he has a habit of getting angry and using his fragile flute as a weapon if his music is not well recieved. After smashing his flute over someones head he has a tendancy to hide in a dark corner untill he is less angry, then lay down for a nap.
Alright, round 2 I suppose. I hope I didn't swing to far the other way with this.
The build is a gnome barbarian/sorc that focuses on unarmed attacks (or claw attacks). Basic strategy would be to cast haste and a quickened spell on the first round followed by a quickened spell and then tenser's transformation the second round.
This is an optimized build using what I consider a sub-optimal set up from the get go; a caster who fights while enraged and is built around tense... *clears throat* transformation.
Tindel the Feral (a.k.a. The Tasmanian Devil Build)
Barbarian 8/Sorcerer 12 (Gnome/Draconic Bloodline)
Stats (At level 20, all bonuses and adjustments worked in)
Str 14
Dex 10
Con 16
Int 7
Wis 12
Cha 20
Barbarian rage powers
- Animal Fury
- Intimidating Glare
- Moment of Clarity
- Scent
Feats
Brew Potion
Dazzling Display
Gorgon's Fist
Improved Unarmed Strike
Intimidating Prowess
Medusa's Wrath
Power Attack
Quicken Spell (Bonus Sorc Feat)
Scorpion Style
Shatter Defenses
Weapon Focus (Unarmed)
That's more like it.
Can we get anything other than gnomes? :)
That's more like it.
Can we get anything other than gnomes? :)
Lets change Tindel to a half-elf then.
New stats
Str 14
Dex 8
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 20
Add Skill Focus (Intimidate)
That leaves Tindel looking pretty good on those Intimidate checks (+36 and +40 while raging with transformation going).
Demosthenes - If you make that a Barbarian/Wizard, your familiar can also do the rage/transformation thing, and you can be twice as sub-optimal!
Demosthenes - If you make that a Barbarian/Wizard, your familiar can also do the rage/transformation thing, and you can be twice as sub-optimal!
I could switch up my bloodline for arcane and get the same effect :)
Do any of the familiars have rage?
Really though I wouldn't want to give up the claws. It was the initial idea for the whole build and even though I've always wanted to use transformation somehow it was an afterthought.
A free bonus attack, 1d6 base damage + 1d6 elemental damage for a whopping 3 + Cha rounds a day!! This ability alone is worth making a sub-optimal build around, transformation and rage are just gravy.
We clearly need a suboptimal rogue of some sort now.
Sub optimal optimized rogue you say? Hmm... How about:
Mork the Half Orc Thief
Mork was the weakest kid in his part of the slums and was mocked by all the other kids, expsecially the half orcs. so he turned to music and stealing things to make his living.
Mork has magic oh yes (second level spells) those are good and he can cast them in combat and steal things, and sneak atack you with his banjo!
pntbuy 15:
Str: 11 +1 increase
Dex: 15 +2 race +1 increase
con:12
Int:8
Wis:20
Cha:15 +3 increase
Bard: 4
Rogues: 6
Arcane Trickster: 10
Feats:
Weapon Finesse
Arcane Strike
Wep Focus: Banjo
catch off guard
Imp Wep mastery
critical focus
improved critical
stagering critical
dodge
mobility
Rogue talents:
Resiliency
Rogue Crawl
Slow Reactions
