Pathfinder: Shield Slam and Bull Rush Feats

[Kermit-D-Frog]

I have two questions about a "Pathfinder" 11th level fighter who has taken the following feats:

Two Weapon Fighting/Improved Two Weapon Fighting/Greater Two Weapon Fighting (effectively granting 3 attacks with off hand weapon)
Improved Shield Bash
Shield Slam (granting "Free" bull rush when they hit on a shield bash attack)
Power Attack
Improved Bull Rush
Greater Bull Rush

Question1: Bull rush is a standard action by itself meaning I can make a move action and a Bull Rush (standard action) in one round but nothing else. The feat Shield Slam says "Opponents hit by your shield bash are also hit with a free bull rush attack." Would an 11th level fighter with 3 off-hand attacks be able to bull rush three opponents as long as he hit each of them with one of his 3 off-hand attacks? This would grant the fighter 6 attacks and 3 bull rushes in a round!

My thoughts: According to my interpretation the fighter would be able to attack 3 times with their primary weapon and 3 times with their shield. Each time they hit with their shield they would also get a free bull rush against that opponent. Keep in mind that the fighter does not have to move with the opponent that they bull rush so they do not have to exceed the 5 foot step limit with a full attack action round.

Question2: To calculate the Combat Maneuver Check on a free bull rush granted by the shield slam feat the rules say "substituting your attack roll for the combat maneuver check." Would you get a +4 granted to your Bull Rush check because of the Improved and Greater Bull Rush feats?

My thoughts: You scored an attack on a monster based on your BAB+Str Bonus+Magical Attack Modifiers Etc... The sum of that role is based on being able to hit an opponent Armor Class to do damage. Using that to calculate a combat maneuver check seems in-congruent with the idea of Combat Maneuver Checks but that is the rule so I am fine with it. I do not see any reason not to apply the bonuses, granted by improved and greater bull rush feats, to the "Free" bull rush granted by the Shield Slam feat. Those 2 feats represent the the honing of the bull rush technique by the fighter who has "spent" 2 feat slots on them (3 including Power Attack). Whenever making a Combat Maneuver Check for Bull Rush I think they should be that much better at it than someone who has not taken the feats.

[The Grandfather]

Kermit-D-Frog wrote:

I have two questions about a "Pathfinder" 11th level fighter who has taken the following feats:

Two Weapon Fighting/Improved Two Weapon Fighting/Greater Two Weapon Fighting (effectively granting 3 attacks with off hand weapon)
Improved Shield Bash
Shield Slam (granting "Free" bull rush when they hit on a shield bash attack)
Power Attack
Improved Bull Rush
Greater Bull Rush

Question1: Bull rush is a standard action by itself meaning I can make a move action and a Bull Rush (standard action) in one round but nothing else. The feat Shield Slam says "Opponents hit by your shield bash are also hit with a free bull rush attack." Would an 11th level fighter with 3 off-hand attacks be able to bull rush three opponents as long as he hit each of them with one of his 3 off-hand attacks? This would grant the fighter 6 attacks and 3 bull rushes in a round!

My thoughts: According to my interpretation the fighter would be able to attack 3 times with their primary weapon and 3 times with their shield. Each time they hit with their shield they would also get a free bull rush against that opponent. Keep in mind that the fighter does not have to move with the opponent that they bull rush so they do not have to exceed the 5 foot step limit with a full attack action round.

The action you describe can omly be done as a full-round action (i.e. no move action can be made in conjunction with it) aside from that your thoughts are correct. keep in mind that your free bull rush attacks might make you unable to reach your enemies with your melee reach.

Kermit-D-Frog wrote:

Question2: To calculate the Combat Maneuver Check on a free bull rush granted by the shield slam feat the rules say "substituting your attack roll for the combat maneuver check." Would you get a +4 granted to your Bull Rush check because of the Improved and Greater Bull Rush feats?

My thoughts: You scored an attack on a monster based on your BAB+Str Bonus+Magical Attack Modifiers Etc... The sum of that role is based on being able to hit an opponent Armor Class to do damage. Using that to calculate a combat maneuver check seems in-congruent with the idea of Combat Maneuver Checks but that is the rule so I am fine with it. I do not see any reason not to apply the bonuses, granted by improved and greater bull rush feats, to the "Free" bull rush...

That is correct. If you make a shield slam AC24 and hit that same foe would suffer a bull rush attempt at CMD28.

[Kermit-D-Frog]

The Grandfather wrote:

The action you describe can only be done as a full-round action (i.e. no move action can be made in conjunction with it)...

Right. The only movement that can be made during a full round action is a 5 foot step.

PPHB: "The only movement you can take during a full-round action is a 5-foot step before, during, or after the action. You can also perform free actions and swift actions..."

The Grandfather wrote:

Keep in mind that your free bull rush attacks might make you unable to reach your enemies with your melee reach.

The Shield Bash/Shield Slam attack would be used as a tool in the utility belt of a sword and board fighter. Here is an example of the shield bash in action!

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Sylvianna the thief/mage and Tartann the fighter finish off the last of the kobold zombies in a tough battle. Sylvianna has sustained a great deal of damage and takes a moment to bind her wounds.

After casting detect magic from a scroll, she is drawn to a cleverly hidden chest in a corner of the room housing items that radiate a strong alteration magic. Carefully looking it over she finds a powerful acid trap guarding from anyone foolish enough to open it.

Sylvianna bends down and starts to disable the tricky trap on the ornate chest. She is carefully working past the sensitive triggers that would spray acid all over anything in a 10 foot radius.

Tartann is looking nervously from her to the chest hoping she doesn't kill them both. He hears something from the hall and turns to look.

Just then Ruggle the goblin dressed in blood stained studded leather enters the room. He is supprised to see his kobold slaves scattered dead around the room and an elf and dwarf standing in the corner. There is rage on his face as he points to Sylvianna. He rushes toward Sylvianna and says in barely intelligible common, "Keep your hands off my stones (pun intended)."

In his rage Ruggle makes a mistake and tries to run past Tartann in an effort to stop Sylvianna from opening the chest. Doing this provokes and attack of opportunity (AO) so Tartann will get one hit on Ruggle as he charges past.

Tartann knows that Sylvianna shouldn't be interrupted, she has a low AC and very few hit points left from the previous battle. He cannot let Ruggle get to Sylvianna. He decides to shield bash Ruggle.

Ruggle's AC is 14 (+2 armor and +2 Dex bonus) his combat maneuver defense (CMD) is 12 (10 +2 Dex). Tartann makes an attack and the total is 21. He hits Ruggle with his shield bash doing 5 points of damage and he gets the free bull rush attempt from his shield slam feat. He uses the 21 from the attack and +4 from his improved and greater bull rush feats for a total of 25 on his combat maneuver check, 13 over Ruggle's CMD.

The combat maneuver succeeds throwing Ruggle 5 feet plus 5 feet for every 5 points over Ruggles CMD. The total is 15 feet. Normally Ruggle would fly 15 feet and be able to finish his movement but there is a wall 10 feet away so Ruggle hits the wall and falls flat on his face (Prone).

Ruggle uses the rest of his round standing up from prone.

Tartann has successfully stopped Ruggle in his tracks!
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This is one example of how the Shield Bash/Shield Slam can be used in combat but there are a lot of tasty battle scenarios where this can come in handy!

[Anvil Mithrashield]

Kermit-D-Frog wrote:

I have two questions about a "Pathfinder" 11th level fighter who has taken the following feats:

Two Weapon Fighting/Improved Two Weapon Fighting/Greater Two Weapon Fighting (effectively granting 3 attacks with off hand weapon)
Improved Shield Bash
Shield Slam (granting "Free" bull rush when they hit on a shield bash attack)
Power Attack
Improved Bull Rush
Greater Bull Rush

I have a question on this, why would you waster feats in Improved Bull Rush and Greater Bull Rush if you already had Shield Slam, am I missing something (or did something change from core rules since this post)?

Also, maybe my rule are off but, giving you a free bull rush doesn't mean it has to be taken. My interpretation is you could hit with a Shield Bash twice and Slam once, if you choose.

[Anvil Mithrashield]

I get it, greater bull rush grants an attack of opportunity

[Casual Viking]

No, you don't add your +4 to Bull Rush to the result. Because "Attack Roll" means "The sum of your die roll plus your attack bonus" and Combat Maneuver Check means "The sum of your die roll plus Combat Maneuver Bonus".