Pathfinder Grim and Gritty


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I have been toying with systems from several sources but none of them truly seems to be what I am looking for. The grim'n'gritty 4.0 rules are decent but I would like to keep the d20 roll. I have also been looking over monte cooks experimental might rules in regards to grace and toughness and like the idea of some portion of your hp coming back quickly and other portions not coming back quickly. I also like the idea that critical hits apply directly to the toughness portion similar to the method used in the Star Wars RPG. I have seen and even used the reserve hp system but it just isn't what I am looking for either. As this is going to be an online game, I would like to reduce the number of critical hits but keep them more deadly without going to far. So, I have attempted to combine some of the rules I have seen including a modification of the Green Ronin set critical damage rules. Here is my first draft and was hoping to get some feedback from the excellent community here.

Use the hit point rules from pathfinder society as the base meaning max at first level + set number based on hit die each level.

Hit Points are broken down into two parts:
1. Vitality = [Constitution Score + (Level x Con Modifier) + Toughness (if applicable)]
Vitality is your actual life force or physical condition. Damage to vitality causes the character to be fatigued immediately.
Reduced to 0 vitality = disabled
Less than 0 vitality = dying
Reduced to negative con score = dead

2. Stamina = Total - Vitality
Stamina returns at an accelerated rate outside of combat / physically straining situations.

Critical Hit rules are adjusted as follows:
1. Reduce base threat range by half.
2. Reduce multiplier by 1.
3. Confirmed critical hits apply directly to Vitality
4. A x2 multiplier does not double damage but instead adds half the weapons base damage to the damage roll. A x3 multiplier does not triple damage but instead doubles the base weapon damage to the damage roll.

Additional Concept Rules
1. Stamina can be spent to perform additional maneuvers. (not defined at this point)
2. Vitality can be spent to power additional spells (not completely defined at this point)

Thoughts?

Dark Archive

I might recommend further reading into Monte Cook's Iron Heroes sourcebook. There's some incredible stuff in there. I'm at work or I'd quote it.


So much would need to be altered it hardly seems worth it.
As Matt Finch says about Swords & Wizardry: It is like being Batman, no super powers, nothing that makes you superior to anyone else other than your ambition, drive and the fact that you are scouring dungeons.

More modern games are very centered on gimmicks and additions like skills and feats. However, I sold Pathfinder on my Labyrinth Lord group because sometimes you want to be Spiderman and stand out from the crowd.

Neither approach is better than the other, but newer versions of the game just don't strike one as being as grim as struggling to keep a wizard based on 0E or B/X D&D alive.

Grim and gritty just doesn't jive with 3.0+, not even Green Ronin's Black Company setting was that grim, and the books are quite gritty for any who have read them.


You thought about useing the old vitality points from Star wars d20? That might work

Another thought would be to allow them to have con as HP+ a race based booster and never gain HP after that. Ya would need to limit CR of what they fight a bit, it would be brutal

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