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Okay maybe I'm just strange, but why in the heck is deflect arrows only performable by those with unarmed strike? I mean I understand it for snatch arrows, but deflect arrows should definitely be an ability that a person with a shield can take, and a sword. Heck in Mythbusters they show a guy deflecting an arrow with a sword. I'm just wondering what the reasoning is that only people with their hands free can deflect arrows.
i myself allow them to take it with a shield. I am guessing thats because they were thinking all ninja with hand deflecting but I would allow with a shield
I would say that the AC bonus of the shield already accounts for the protection from an arrow portion. But as far as the realm of house rules go, you have a couple of good options.
One is to change deflect arrows to require one of the following... Improved Unarmed Strike to deflect arrows with a free hand OR Shield Focus to allow you to do the same thing with a shield.
If you wanted to expand it to weapons you could also add Weapon Focus as a third prerequisite feat to let you use the ability with a sword or other weapon.
All three options would expand the existing feat without making the feat available to anyone without advanced feat training in whatever it is you use to deflect the arrow with.
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Heck in Mythbusters they show a guy deflecting an arrow with a sword.
Um, IIRC they ruled that one "BUSTED" because while their martial arts expert could do it, he couldn't have survived an attack from three archers by simply deflecting arrows with his sword. And that was the myth they were testing. And they went waaay out of their way to determine what the expert could do so they could make a ruling on the myth. They actually had three archers shooting at him one at a time and only when he was ready for them!
I go with RAW. As another poster said, the AC of the shield includes it's ability to deflect/block arrows.
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Heck in Mythbusters they show a guy deflecting an arrow with a sword.Um, IIRC they ruled that one "BUSTED" because while their martial arts expert could do it, he couldn't have survived an attack from three archers by simply deflecting arrows with his sword. And that was the myth they were testing. And they went waaay out of their way to determine what the expert could do so they could make a ruling on the myth. They actually had three archers shooting at him one at a time and only when he was ready for them!
I go with RAW. As another poster said, the AC of the shield includes it's ability to deflect/block arrows.
You don't recall correctly, that wasn't with a sword that was with his bare hands and he was trying to catch an arrow not deflect it in that episode. He responded to their saying the myth was busted that he wouldn't be trying to catch arrows in a real life scenario, that he'd use his sword to deflect them then cut the opponent down. They tested that, twice, and both times the ninja blocked the arrow with his sword and got to the archer before another shot could be fired. The RAW actually makes less sense, I agree that a shield gives a boost to AC but what about people who wield just a weapon, because they aren't unarmed and they aren't using a shield they just have to take it.
Purely my opinion, backed by nothing other than that.
I think its nothing more than a feat tax, to prevent most of the other dex capable people of taking the feat as just a way to avoid 1 incoming arrow per round. The feat is clearly written for monks. (hand free, unarmed strike preq.. who else runs around with unarmed strike feat, and has nothing in their hands?).
Whether it Should be a feat tax or not, is open to debate of course. But that is the underlying reasoning behind "why" it requires unarmed strike.
I know plenty of rogues though who would love to get the ability to deflect an arrow a round with their sword :)
-S
Heroes of Battle has a feat called Block Arrow. Once per round when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon you can deflect it with your shield and negate the damage. It only require you have a shield... so you could even do it with a buckler.
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I'd be pretty cozy with a Block Arrow feat that worked pretty much exactly the same, but required Weapon Specialization or Shield Focus as a prereq, instead of Improved Unarmed Strike, allowing the best of the best weapon users, or pretty much any yob with a shield and the right training, to use it. Being a different feat, Block Arrow would not be usable as a Snatch Arrow prerequisite, obviously, as that wouldn't 'make sense' for someone batting an arrow aside with a shield or longsword.
Such a feat would not work, obviously, if you didn't have the item (shield or specialized weapon) in hand for blocking purposes.
I'd be pretty cozy with a Block Arrow feat that worked pretty much exactly the same, but required Weapon Specialization or Shield Focus as a prereq, instead of Improved Unarmed Strike, allowing the best of the best weapon users, or pretty much any yob with a shield and the right training, to use it. Being a different feat, Block Arrow would not be usable as a Snatch Arrow prerequisite, obviously, as that wouldn't 'make sense' for someone batting an arrow aside with a shield or longsword.
Such a feat would not work, obviously, if you didn't have the item (shield or specialized weapon) in hand for blocking purposes.
The Block Arrow feat from Heroes of Battle does not require improved unarmed strike only shield proficiency and a 13 DEX. It'd be easy enough to add Shield Focus as a prereq to give it a greater feat tax. Or re-flavor it towards weapons by requiring weapon proficiency and weapon focus instead.
Tacking on Weapon Specialization is a pretty harsh feat tax as it means you need both weapon focus and weapon specialization and then block arrow (3 feats)
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Tacking on Weapon Specialization is a pretty harsh feat tax as it means you need both weapon focus and weapon specialization and then block arrow (3 feats)
True. I was thinking of it from a more thematic standpoint than a mechanical one, where it seems that only the absolute masters of their weapon are shown pulling off those sorts of stunts, and not just any yob with a sword. (Shields, on the other hand, I figured it would easier to do with, so I didn't make it require Shield Master or anything sick, just Shield Focus.) Putting Weapon Specialization in front of it also meant that only Monks and Shield Focused builds would be blocking arrows at 1st level, while someone who trained to do that with their greatsword would have to wait for 5th level, at the earliest.
It looks like the Block Arrows feat that already exists (requiring only Shield *proficiency*) is built under the assumption that arrow cutting should be even easier than I had envisioned. (At the cheapest, using Block Arrows requiring only shield proficiency, I'd still require 'Parry Arrows' to need Weapon Focus first. It, IMO, should require a better than average weapon-user to duplicate that sort of stunt.)
Tacking on Weapon Specialization is a pretty harsh feat tax as it means you need both weapon focus and weapon specialization and then block arrow (3 feats)True. I was thinking of it from a more thematic standpoint than a mechanical one, where it seems that only the absolute masters of their weapon are shown pulling off those sorts of stunts, and not just any yob with a sword. (Shields, on the other hand, I figured it would easier to do with, so I didn't make it require Shield Master or anything sick, just Shield Focus.) Putting Weapon Specialization in front of it also meant that only Monks and Shield Focused builds would be blocking arrows at 1st level, while someone who trained to do that with their greatsword would have to wait for 5th level, at the earliest.
It looks like the Block Arrows feat that already exists (requiring only Shield *proficiency*) is built under the assumption that arrow cutting should be even easier than I had envisioned. (At the cheapest, using Block Arrows requiring only shield proficiency, I'd still require 'Parry Arrows' to need Weapon Focus first. It, IMO, should require a better than average weapon-user to duplicate that sort of stunt.)
Sounds cool by me. Though... you could just create another feat called Parry Arrows or Arrow Cutting and use Block Arrow as a prerequisite. Basically require they figure out how to slap arrows out of the air with a shield before they can figure out how to do it with a weapon.
Create a little mini feat tree.
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Sounds cool by me. Though... you could just create another feat called Parry Arrows or Arrow Cutting and use Block Arrow as a prerequisite. Basically require they figure out how to slap arrows out of the air with a shield before they can figure out how to do it with a weapon.
Create a little mini feat tree.
Making two branches instead, Block Arrow (with shield) or Arrow Cutting (with weapon) might be even better, as it would allow the weapon master who uses a quarterstaff, greatsword or longspear to learn Arrow Cutting without having to take shield-specific feats that have nothing to do with his fighting style.
But yeah, it could go either way.
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Tacking on Weapon Specialization is a pretty harsh feat tax as it means you need both weapon focus and weapon specialization and then block arrow (3 feats)True. I was thinking of it from a more thematic standpoint than a mechanical one, where it seems that only the absolute masters of their weapon are shown pulling off those sorts of stunts, and not just any yob with a sword. (Shields, on the other hand, I figured it would easier to do with, so I didn't make it require Shield Master or anything sick, just Shield Focus.) Putting Weapon Specialization in front of it also meant that only Monks and Shield Focused builds would be blocking arrows at 1st level, while someone who trained to do that with their greatsword would have to wait for 5th level, at the earliest.
And would have to be fighter class
And would have to be fighter classTacking on Weapon Specialization is a pretty harsh feat tax as it means you need both weapon focus and weapon specialization and then block arrow (3 feats)True. I was thinking of it from a more thematic standpoint than a mechanical one, where it seems that only the absolute masters of their weapon are shown pulling off those sorts of stunts, and not just any yob with a sword. (Shields, on the other hand, I figured it would easier to do with, so I didn't make it require Shield Master or anything sick, just Shield Focus.) Putting Weapon Specialization in front of it also meant that only Monks and Shield Focused builds would be blocking arrows at 1st level, while someone who trained to do that with their greatsword would have to wait for 5th level, at the earliest.
Whoop... yeah forgot to mention that part in my last post. Good catch.
I've currently got a Fighter who at first level somehow got his hands on a Ring of Force Shield. The DM has ruled that it provides no penalties and can be used with a two-handed weapon. I'm not going to argue. :)
Come to think of it... I'll have to pick up Block Arrow for my fighter.
I kinda like the mental image of my fighter only popping out the shield to quickly block an attack or arrow as he continues to slash away.