Help with a character concept

[Draeke Raefel]

Hey guys, I need help with fleshing out a character concept. I am going to be starting a character in the CoT AP fairly soon and I started speccing out a Rogue character. The only rogue characters I've made before are skill/interaction rogues than combat oriented. However, I found out that we are going to have a Bard and another rogue in the mix. I talked to the other Rogue and I think we were going in the same direction so I wanted to make a combat rogue instead ( He altered his idea slightly to be less conflicting with the bard ).

That being said, I am currently talking with the GM and trying to get permission to take the Assassin prestige class. I am either going to A. Be evil with a reason to help out the town, or B. Get the "must be evil" requirement waived.

Fluff:
I have a general idea of a backstory at the moment and I am planning to fill it in later. Basically, my character grew up with with his mother, his father abandoned them when he was young. Life was tough, but not overly so and Chelaxian society, if not embracing, at the least tolerated his half-orc heritage. Even with the occasional help of his uncle( a fairly notorious Actor ), they were often strapped for cash and had to live in the poorer sections of town. And, as young boys are apt to do, he started exploring and getting into trouble very early. Learning the ways of the streets was equivalent to survival and he learned them well, and fast.
Around the age of 7 he met a fellow half-orc named Kendrick. Kendrick spotted the boys quick reflexes, above average strength and intelligence, and offered to train him in the rogue arts in exchange for servitude until his "graduation" from his tutelage. Also, he would have to pay him the sum of 1000 gold within 2 years of being on his own. My character agreed. Kendrick ended up being an assassin and so my character was started upon that path. As a cover for various illicit activities, Kendrick also made him apprentice with his uncle as an Actor.

Anyway, I have the following so far:

Race: Half-Orc
Al: Not sure. LE or Some form of N probably

Stats( assume 10 if not mentioned 20 pt buy ):
int twf
Str 14 15
Dex 14 15
Int 14 16 14
Chr 14 14

I could also just go +2 to str instead of +2 int

Favored class bonus to sp
Skills:
Acrobatics
Bluff
Climb
Disable Device
Disguise
Intimidate
Perception
Performance( Acting )
Sleight of Hand
Stealth
Use Magic Device

With 16 int I was thinking of taking Spellcraft and the classically schooled trait

Campaign trait: Child of Infamy
If I don't take Classically schooled, I am thinking about reactionary

1st lvl feat: I was thinking Skill Focus( Acrobatics ), Catch Off Gaurd, or improved initiative. If I choose twf stat choices, Two-Weapon Fighting.

Any thoughts, suggestions or ideas?

Thanks

[dthunder]

Lawful Evil is an easy evil alignment to work in with any party. Playing as a character with noble ideals with an "ends justify the means" attitude makes this kind of concept easier to work in with neutral and even good PCs.

Two-handed weapon rogues can dish-out some decent damage, but springing for the twf tree will give you a damage boost if you don't multiclass. If you decide to save on feats, I would go for Vital Strike at the very least.

[Xarls Taunzund]

For a combat rogue, archery works well. And as far as following the assassin path, doesn't necessarily mean the Assassin PrC. I could mean the Shadowdancer PrC. You appear from the shadows as you let loose your arrow, only to fade back into the aforementioned shadows.

Str 14
Dex 18 (including racial)
Con 10
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 10

You could easily switch the 14 from Str to Cha. Or even split it between the two, one at 12, the other at 13. I went with Str because you can get a composite shortbow built for strength, and any extra damage is nice.

You will have to take at least 5 levels of rogue before going with Shadowdancer. You will have two rogue talents, one of which you will want to spend on Combat Trick to get Combat Reflexes, a requirement for Shadowdancer. For the other I would suggest Fast Stealth. You will need Dodge and Mobility for Shadowdancer as well. After that I would grab Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot ASAP, continuing largely on that feat tree. Whatever else you choose to do with your skills, you will want Stealth maxed out. Also you will need 2 ranks in Perform (dance) to qualify for Shadowdancer. But that should go well with your other Perform.

Of course, since I just came up with this build, I am probably missing something important.

[SmiloDan]

If you have a bard in the party, you can probably afford to take some penalties to your attack rolls, so you might want to go the Combat Expertise/Improved Feint road, or the Power Attack route, especially if you are using your half-orc proficienies in Great Axe and/or Falchion. If Falchion, maybe try to eventually get some of Critical feats. Also, Telling Blow from PH2 might be fun (add sneak attack damage to critical hits) with a Falchion (2d4+ 1.5 Str, 18-20/x2).

Also, you might be the main combat guy if your party has a bard and another rogue, unless your party size is pretty big or lacking healers and mages.

[Draeke Raefel]

Thanks for the input guys :)

I was thinking of making him more melee oriented rather than bow oriented. The bow works just fine, obviously, but the concept in my head involved coming out of the shadows to flank, or stick an axe/dagger/spoon in someone and then continuing on. I also wanted him to be fairly charismatic and able to bluff his way out of trouble. I'll see how many of his skills are chr based and see if the +2 from a 14 chr balances out the +1 from getting an 18 dex.

We should have a decent number of players, I just don't know what their classes will be. We have:

A rogue( paranoid sense motive/run away )
A rogue( combat oriented )
A bard
A cleric
Unknown
Unknown
Unknown

Hopefully one of the unknowns creates a fighter.

Oh! I was also thinking about the expertise/Improved Feint tree, but I was hoping for flanks so it wasn't super critical. Making sure my Acrobatics is maxed out to help get the flanks will be important though.

[Draeke Raefel]

Any other suggestions?

[insaneogeddon]

Catch off guard, Dazzling Display, Shatter Defenses, 2 wpn fighting.

Bluff and disquise to walk up to most people holding anything then double sneak attack.

In open melee Dazzling Display (lowering hit and saves) then double sneak attack.

When in Doubt throw nets as they should hit and hamper brutish slow fools.

From there combat expertise and Improve Disarm might be handy. Use a bandage or a belt or whatever thru catch of guard to make the trip attacks.

Get the magic rogue ability so you can cast magic weapon.

[insaneogeddon]

Actually i disagree with my above post.

I suggest:

1. Catch of Guard
3. Step Up
5. Combat Expertise
7. Improved Disarm
9. Greater Disarm
11 Improved Weapon Mastery

Focus on strength.

This way what you cannot sneak you can still damage.

Dazzling Display seems worthless realy when you can just intimidate using the skill as a standard action.

Shattered Defenses is a waste when you can disarm (and get treasure) or flank.

[Daniel Moyer]

My thoughts on a Combat Rogue...

Combat Rogue doesn't need high INT, Pathfinder's skill consolidation works in your favor and Disable Device is DEX in Pathfinder.

If you plan on being one of a few melee characters, I would make the favored class choice +1 HP, because 8 skill points is more than enough to cover the necessities. (Leaving you options depending on theme... Appraise, Disguise, Use Magic Device, Sleight of Hand, etc.)
1 Disable Device
2 Perception
3 Stealth
4 Bluff
5 Acrobatics
6 Use Magic Device {optional}
7 Sleight of Hand {optional}
8 {optional}

High CHA will assist your Feints and your UMD checks. UMD can be up to +10 with the first rank, 50% chance to use a wand.

Take Fighter at 1st level for the 10HP(if your DM does that), +1 BaB, extra feat and martial weapon proficiency.

STR 14+2 = 16
DEX 16
CON 10
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 16

1. Fighter - Feats: Combat Expertise, Imp. Feint (Skills: Acrobatics & Bluff)
2. Rogue (every level after)

[Charles Townsend]

There is a rogue in a game I'm in that is quite efficient in combat, but the build won't work if you can only use core, as it uses Quick Reconoiter and Deft Strike from Complete Adventurer. First he feints as a move action (Improved Feint), then, thanks to Quick Reconoiter, he makes his Perception check for Deft Strike as a free action. Your opponent now loses his Dex bonus (SNEAK ATTACK!), his Armor bonus and his Natural armor bonus to AC. Wash, rinse, repeat for more or less automatic sneak attack damage every time.

[Draeke Raefel]

That would be nice... But, yeah, we are limited to core. I do have to check to see if I am allowed to multi-class though...

[dthunder]

If you go with the single-weapon concept, Improved Feint would work excellently with Vital Strike. You'd only be getting one attack per round, but 2d12+1d6 is not bad. With a decent strength, you could really dish it out pretty fast. Hell, even 4d4+1d6 is pretty sweet. (I am talking about the greataxe and falchion, btw) The increase as sneak attack goes up will be nice, too. Of course, given the size and composition of your party, you may have enough flankers to skip the Improved Feint and save the feats.

[insaneogeddon]

Charles Townsend wrote:

There is a rogue in a game I'm in that is quite efficient in combat, but the build won't work if you can only use core, as it uses Quick Reconoiter and Deft Strike from Complete Adventurer. First he feints as a move action (Improved Feint), then, thanks to Quick Reconoiter, he makes his Perception check for Deft Strike as a free action. Your opponent now loses his Dex bonus (SNEAK ATTACK!), his Armor bonus and his Natural armor bonus to AC. Wash, rinse, repeat for more or less automatic sneak attack damage every time.

Good combo but by the wording some DMs dissalow it.