Fly Skill and flying up at greater than half speed?

[Razz]

In 3.5E, a creature with Perfect maneuverability can fly up at normal speed. But in Pathfinder, it says you fly up at half speed and doesn't offer the skill check needed to fly up faster than that.

Was that omitted or intended?

[LazarX]

Razz wrote:

In 3.5E, a creature with Perfect maneuverability can fly up at normal speed. But in Pathfinder, it says you fly up at half speed and doesn't offer the skill check needed to fly up faster than that.

Was that omitted or intended?

Probably intended... no matter how skillful you are... unless you're a wildshaping Druid, or a Wizard with the Shapechange spell, you're not an air elemental. Also keep in mind that it's a generic skill description... individual powers, abilities,and circumstances will modify it, such as Shapechanging mentioned above or a particurlarly powerful or weak means of flight.

[Razz]

Um, what about hummingbirds? There are creatures in D&D that can fly at that kind of mobility, like will o' wisps I believe.

[Razz]

I guess DC 20 or maybe 25 for something like that sounds good.

[Pegasos989]

It takes significantly more energy to move 40 feet up than it does to move 40 feet horizonally. With horizonal movement you just need to maintain enough force not to descend and then work against air resistance to move forward but with vertical movement you need to maintain the force not to fall and then work against gravity AND air resistance.

It just wouldn't make any sense to be able to move just as fast up as you can move forward. Try this: Attach a rope somewhere, put on rollerblades and see how fast you can draw yourself forward. Then attach a rope to the roof and try to climb it up with only your hands. I guarantee you that moving horizonally is a lot faster and it has nothing at all to do with your skill.

If you choose that you want to houserule fast movement upwards, you should know *why* you want to do that. Don't do it for the sake of houseruling or because "it makes sense" as it really doesn't. If you think that the combats really need mechanics like that for some reason, think purely from mechanical perspective.

At that point, those DCs seem really low. The will-o'-wisp which you mentioned has a fly check of +31! By the time wizard gets overland flight spell (early mid-levels) he could easily have modifier of +17 or so... Especially DC 20 seems really low.

If you just want to make the movement simpler, pehaps just houserule that movement costs the same, regardless of direction? No skill checks needed.

[Zurai]

Pegasos989 wrote:

It just wouldn't make any sense to be able to move just as fast up as you can move forward. Try this: Attach a rope somewhere, put on rollerblades and see how fast you can draw yourself forward. Then attach a rope to the roof and try to climb it up with only your hands. I guarantee you that moving horizonally is a lot faster and it has nothing at all to do with your skill.

Now try it again when you have no (or negligible) weight, for example when you're a will-o-wisp. I guarantee you won't notice any significant difference.

[Razz]

For one, it's a fantasy game so I'm not worried about actual physics. As for moving up at full speed, as the last poster stated, if you have negligible weight than it should be no harder to fly up than horizontally. What about supernatural flyers, like beholders, also? The hummingbird can do it without much problem, either, a real life creature.

As for the DC, well if you look at most of the DCs for the flying maneuvers, they're all pretty low, only a poor and clumsy would have any real problems with it, an average with skill ranks can do well, and good and perfect need only a couple ranks to perform those maneuvers easily. Flying up should be the hardest, DC 25 is good for that.