Adept NPC Class - Access to Orison ability?


Rules Questions


Bards, Sorcerers, and Wizards have Cantrips.
Clerics and Druids have Orisons.

Should Adepts have the Orison ability too, or is the intent to have their 0-Level Spells be one-use?

Thank you.


The intent is for their 0-level spellcasting to be limited use. Adept is an NPC class and is meant to have limited impact on the world.

Sovereign Court

zurai said it the answer is no


Zurai wrote:
The intent is for their 0-level spellcasting to be limited use. Adept is an NPC class and is meant to have limited impact on the world.

Thanks for the clarification!


As a second opinion, Orisons are really weak, and I don't see how anyone accessing them will seriously effect anything.

Lantern Lodge

rando1000 wrote:
As a second opinion, Orisons are really weak, and I don't see how anyone accessing them will seriously effect anything.

in 8 hours, a single 1st level cleric can provide a days worth of drinking water for an entire desert town. in a week of constant work, that same 1st level cleric can make a resevoir the size of a lake. maybe not one of the 5 great lakes, but a lake, give or take a few gallons.


Luminiere Solas wrote:
rando1000 wrote:
As a second opinion, Orisons are really weak, and I don't see how anyone accessing them will seriously effect anything.
in 8 hours, a single 1st level cleric can provide a days worth of drinking water for an entire desert town. in a week of constant work, that same 1st level cleric can make a resevoir the size of a lake. maybe not one of the 5 great lakes, but a lake, give or take a few gallons.

I would point out, though, that Cure Minor Wounds was removed from PF because they didn't want PCs to be able to use a 0-level spell to have enough power to constantly heal the party. I think Paizo overlooked the possibility you described when including Create Water as an Orison, and I certainly would rule against it in my game. Do you have any other examples of Orisons that are powerful enough to change the state of a campaign? If you do, I'd suggest that maybe those were not properly thought through either.

I would also suggest that the OP either wants to use Orisons for an NPC Adept (at which point he could easily change the landscape of the campaign at will, because he is the DM, so the point is moot), OR the OP is asking about adding Orisons to a PC, at which point he could easily play a Cleric and have access to the same ability (once again, the point is moot). If one 1st level class can so dramatically alter the game world with a 0-level spell, something is broken.


rando1000 wrote:
Luminiere Solas wrote:
rando1000 wrote:
As a second opinion, Orisons are really weak, and I don't see how anyone accessing them will seriously effect anything.
in 8 hours, a single 1st level cleric can provide a days worth of drinking water for an entire desert town. in a week of constant work, that same 1st level cleric can make a resevoir the size of a lake. maybe not one of the 5 great lakes, but a lake, give or take a few gallons.

I would point out, though, that Cure Minor Wounds was removed from PF because they didn't want PCs to be able to use a 0-level spell to have enough power to constantly heal the party. I think Paizo overlooked the possibility you described when including Create Water as an Orison, and I certainly would rule against it in my game. Do you have any other examples of Orisons that are powerful enough to change the state of a campaign? If you do, I'd suggest that maybe those were not properly thought through either.

I would also suggest that the OP either wants to use Orisons for an NPC Adept (at which point he could easily change the landscape of the campaign at will, because he is the DM, so the point is moot), OR the OP is asking about adding Orisons to a PC, at which point he could easily play a Cleric and have access to the same ability (once again, the point is moot). If one 1st level class can so dramatically alter the game world with a 0-level spell, something is broken.

This has been covered before in a different thread. The water disappears after 24 hours. Best you can get is a cleric single handedly keeping a town hydrated if he does nothing else.


And his god is fine with granting that many prayers. Remember that cleric ask the god pretty please to cast a spell, abuse that gift and you will find yourself spell-less

Sovereign Court

rando1000 wrote:
As a second opinion, Orisons are really weak, and I don't see how anyone accessing them will seriously effect anything.

And that's fine if you want to houserule it that way, but by the rules, adepts don't get orisons. Me I'm glad not every spellcaster in the world can cast spells at will.


lastknightleft wrote:
rando1000 wrote:
As a second opinion, Orisons are really weak, and I don't see how anyone accessing them will seriously effect anything.
And that's fine if you want to houserule it that way, but by the rules, adepts don't get orisons. Me I'm glad not every spellcaster in the world can cast spells at will.

True, it would be a house rule. I missed the part of the OP's question about it being the INTENTION that they get only a number of 0-level spells. Thought the question was "COULD they have Orisons", i.e. would it cause problems. My bad.

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