It looks like we are getting closer to this becoming a reality for roleplaying, with a Microsoft Surface Table. Here is a great video showcasing it as a battlemap.
When used as just a battlemap, it would still be useful for Pathfinder, however the team working on it (right now just as a student project) is making it a fully automated battlemap for 4E D&D.
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It looks neat, but I am weary of trying yet another tech-savvy product with little/no actual support.
Sure, it seems like it adds a lot, but is it not taking away even more time configuring this than working the actual adventure ? if it is more time than a standard adventure, it is not worth the effort for me.
Not convinced at the moment
It looks like we are getting closer to this becoming a reality for roleplaying, with a Microsoft Surface Table. Here is a great video showcasing it as a battlemap.
When used as just a battlemap, it would still be useful for Pathfinder, however the team working on it (right now just as a student project) is making it a fully automated battlemap for 4E D&D.
On the one hand, it DOES look interesting. But frankly I'm not sure how much interest it would gain among most players. Most players like using thier own dice, and this takes that away. It also makes it even more videogamey (for those who play 4e) and moves 3.5 players back toward that when most of them stepped back from 4e to keep the old feel. It also means even more work for the DM, and time is a precious commodity that many do not have.
I might be wrong (wouldn't be the first time!) I think something like this would be better as a virtual tabletop type system for PBEM games or gaming over the internet but for people who meet in person I would think most would prefer the battlemat, minis and die rolling.
Now one thing I think this would be GREAT for, would be conventions, PF society games and such. Cases where you wanted to get rid of some of the randomness of die rolling or (in conventions) the confusion of looking for floor dice.
Cool product most certainly, but probably not for your average gamer.
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I have to admit, when I first heard about these tables and saw a video, my first thought was that these could become the ultimate battlemaps.
I would simply use them as glorified battlemaps and minis.
My thought was you get an image of the battle (with pathfinder APs, important battles won't find this much of a problem, and random encounters could make use of one of 10 different themed maps.
Then you have slightly angled from top down avatars - trolls, skeletons, dragons, and PC models - maybe even have walking, attacking and casting animations for each - and you just drag them around the map
It could tell you how far you walked in the battle grid (not restrict movement, just give you the total distance and let the dm still run things), it could have differ spell areas programmed so you choose the area and direction when you cast and get a "zone" of entangle or whatever left up until the spell effect wears off....
Anyway, that's what I'd like to see. A visual aid tool as opposed to something that handles all dice rolling and calculation. I suppose you could preprogram character stats in and have it give you modifiers or roll dice in the software, but just as a really cool map toy, I think it'd be very cool.
someday when I win $1,000,000, I'll take a vacation, buy one of these and get working on the software. :D
The way I see myself using it would be as a battlemap mainly. I would of course use physical dice.
The battlemap I'm sure would have a "fog of war" option, allowing the DM to reveal only certain parts as required. This would especially be useful in dungeon crawls.
I could foresee publishers like Paizo creating maps and adventures that could be loaded into the program.
As a combat management system, it intrigues me. My biggest challenge when throwing hoards of goons at my players, is keeping track of the individual HP's of all the goons. This becomes more challenging when mass goons start taking hp damage from area affect spells (especially when some fail and some save and take half damage). A built in combat management system combined with the battlemap is a very interesting concept. (It will have to allow for GM overrides in an easy to use, intuitive interface).
I also wonder if there would be a 3-D view option to better depict aerial-based combats. That would be helpful.
Probably too cost prohibitive...
Probably too cost prohibitive...Pah! Mere details! :D
I didn't say it was cost effective....but cool. ^_-
Yep, I don't think every roleplayer will be rushing out to buy one, but that really depends on technology trends in the next 5 years. Right now these 30" screens are $15,000. I suspect when they are available to the household consumer this will probably be around the $1200 range or less (with 5 years). I know, its still expensive, but buying rp stuff is my only vice, so this cost would not deter me :) This wouldn't only be a roleplaying tool though, as I'm certain most board games will be available on it too. (Well, I'm sure there are other useful applications -- but mine would just be used for gaming).
Since all my books are in PDF, it would make referencing them really easy -- especially if you are trying to show a rule to someone. Player hand outs and such would be far easier to just display on the table.
You guys all know about maptool, right?
It is less fancy, but I have had great fun with maptool and a projector aimed down at the table. I've even had some luck using real miniatures.
Now, that's several grand less expensive than the table, and I have WAY more functionality than that little surface demo does. (plus, my die rolls are instant. I could never wait for that one in the video to stop rolling)
You guys all know about maptool, right?
It is less fancy, but I have had great fun with maptool and a projector aimed down at the table. I've even had some luck using real miniatures.
Now, that's several grand less expensive than the table, and I have WAY more functionality than that little surface demo does. (plus, my die rolls are instant. I could never wait for that one in the video to stop rolling)
I use Maptool (rptools.net) right now and I love it.
The fog of war and line-of-sight options are super handy.
Surface computing is still in it's early stages as a technology, but it wont be long before the prices come down, and soft where like this will be much more widely available and useful.
Ofcause, i am much more interested in the step after this. Augmented Reality gaming tables.
Here's an example of a guy using maptools with a projector, with the added plus of a hacked Wii remote that gives it multitouch capability.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1WqdPy655k
That link is broken, but I think I have seen it before.
Strictly speaking, you don't have to "hack" the controller — that makes it sound a lot harder than it is. A wiimote is a plain old bluetooth device, so all you need is a bluetooth capable computer and some software that works with it. I recommend RemoteBuddy on the mac (Darwiin had some fatal bugs for me).
One other thing — I don't think maptool is set up to work with multitouch. I can't remember if they're actually using multitouch functionality in that video or if the pen is just basically a mouse. It would be great, obviously, for controlling zoom and the like.
I actually have most of the expensive ingredients for a setup as good or better than this, but it's not worth it since I play over the web. When I hit the Seattle area next spring, I'll have a regular face to face group, so I will definitely be building one.
I could buy a new LCD TV, lay it flat, link it to my Laptop and put a piece of acrylic over it to protect the screen, then it's my game & cheaper.
That looks like a weird hybrid of RPG and Video game, too hybridized and clunky for me, let me know when the hologram one is out...THAT would be cool.
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Here's an example of a guy using maptools with a projector, with the added plus of a hacked Wii remote that gives it multitouch capability.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1WqdPy655k
That link is broken, but I think I have seen it before.
Strictly speaking, you don't have to "hack" the controller — that makes it sound a lot harder than it is. A wiimote is a plain old bluetooth device, so all you need is a bluetooth capable computer and some software that works with it. I recommend RemoteBuddy on the mac (Darwiin had some fatal bugs for me).
One other thing — I don't think maptool is set up to work with multitouch. I can't remember if they're actually using multitouch functionality in that video or if the pen is just basically a mouse. It would be great, obviously, for controlling zoom and the like.
I actually have most of the expensive ingredients for a setup as good or better than this, but it's not worth it since I play over the web. When I hit the Seattle area next spring, I'll have a regular face to face group, so I will definitely be building one.
So, what is your setup? I am always interested in game bling. ?
I could buy a new LCD TV, lay it flat, link it to my Laptop and put a piece of acrylic over it to protect the screen, then it's my game & cheaper.
That's a neat idea, but how would you mount the TV so that it lies face-up? Since TVs were designed to stand up vertically, I wonder if mounting it face-up would stress the components or cause any problems? If you could find a cheap TV, that would be a nifty experiment.
So, what is your setup? I am always interested in game bling. ?
I got a projector cheap when Circuit City went out of business. It has a "reverse" mode you can use to project from the rear through a translucent screen. So we place that on the floor pointing up, with the wiimote, and get high glass-topped table with stools. Tape thin tracing paper to the underside of the table.
Use one of the open source wiimote bluetooth programs and an LED pen (or in my case, LEDs on the bottom of miniatures), make sure the LED picks up on the wiimote through the tracing paper. These programs are really slick and work out of the box pretty well.
The result is a very nice looking gaming table, where you can use maptool tokens beneath real miniatures, without any shadows, and moving the miniature moves the Maptool token. I will definitely post pics once I finish building it, but right now I have no face-to-face group to appreciate it, so it has to wait till after the move.
It doesn't replicate the fancy multi-touch stuff, but that's just because maptool doesn't support it. If Azhrei or someone feels like getting into the multi-touch stuff, this would be an inexpensive means of implementing it.
It just goes to show, it's not worth waiting for big, clumsy companies to make "neat" things, you can usually do it yourself cheaper and faster.
So, what is your setup? I am always interested in game bling. ?I got a projector cheap when Circuit City went out of business. It has a "reverse" mode you can use to project from the rear through a translucent screen. So we place that on the floor pointing up, with the wiimote, and get high glass-topped table with stools. Tape thin tracing paper to the underside of the table.
Use one of the open source wiimote bluetooth programs and an LED pen (or in my case, LEDs on the bottom of miniatures), make sure the LED picks up on the wiimote through the tracing paper. These programs are really slick and work out of the box pretty well.
Sounds cool, but it might be too complicated for the average joe.
I'm no good with all that technical stuff, so that's probably over my head.
Sounds cool, but it might be too complicated for the average joe.
I'm no good with all that technical stuff, so that's probably over my head.
I'm no whiz myself. The wiimote thing is pretty easy to set up with any screen and a bluetooth enabled computer. It's just a program that you run! No expertise required. You launch it and calibrate it by lighting up the LED/Mouse on the four corners of the screen, and the program takes care of triangulation and everything. Really, easier than it sounds.
If you can plug all of the above devices in and get them talking to eachother correctly, it should work. You know what, I'll prove it! Expect a video tutorial early next year. I hope to create a proliferation of inexpensive light tables, that way we can start seeing multitouch functions in Maptool.
You know what, I'll prove it! Expect a video tutorial early next year. I hope to create a proliferation of inexpensive light tables, that way we can start seeing multitouch functions in Maptool.
You know what? I like your enthusiasm.
You're not as evil as your name implies.
You know what? I like your enthusiasm.
You're not as evil as your name implies.
Hey, I freed the evil slaves, didn't I?