Simulacrum spell

[Jeff Jenkins]

Is this spell abusive?

Say a caster, at 14th level, makes a sim of his "any creature." His creature is a 28th level wizard. So the wizard sim is 14th. He then makes a sim of a 28th level Druid-sim is 14th. The Druid goes off, finds a nice volcanic ridge, casts commune with nature, finds all the minerals, goes and gets all the rubies and comes back. The Wizard sim uses those rubies to make another wizard sim. Who makes a druid sim. etc... Starting with one wizard sim, and assuming one druid can supply one casting per day of Simulacrum, there would be an exponential explosion in the number of sims...ie, 1 on day 1, 2 on day 2, 4 on day 3 etc... It gets into the millions within 2 months, and the original caster then takes over the world.
There are other ways than druidic mining to get the required rubies...simming an earth elemental, xorn, or just lots and lots of miners. Regardless, sims can generate wealth, sims can create sims, so there will be an exponential growth.

[llaletin]

Of course you'd have to get the 28th level Wizard and Druid to agree to this in the first place.

Don't forget that these things don't work on their own initiative, so would say that they would have to be directed every step of the way which has got to be an exhausting process for just looking after 2 of these things, and they certainly aren't able to command others that they create which means that the original is going to have to find some way to do it otherwise all these copies will just be standing there and not doing anything.

[Set]

It would seem difficult, at 14th level, to scrape up body parts from a 28th level Wizard and Druid, it's true.

I'd certainly try to dig up a few legendary heroes to get skin samples or something, and there's always those neat monsters one runs into from time to time, but it's really up to the DM what he allows you to find. (Much like playing a Necromancer focused on undead control / creation. Your power level is *entirely* dependent upon DM kindness in providing sexy corpses (like hydras or dragons) to animate or sexy undead (like ghostly visages, shadows or greater shadows) to rebuke/command.)

But if it's a problem, I'd be perfectly willing to house rule that the caster can't Sim anything more than his HD, instead of twice his HD. At 14th level, he'd be able to take any 14 HD or less creature and make a half-strength Sim of it. Even at 6 or 7 HD, having a permanant Bralani or Succubus or Wyrmling Red Dragon as your huckleberry can be fun. With LA+6 and 6 HD, you'd *just* be able to afford that Succubus as your Cohort, if you took Leadership, but instead, you Planar Bind up a 12-14 HD specimen, barter for some hair samples, and make your own 6 or 7 HD smoking hot demonic assassins.

[Kevin Andrew Murphy]

I believe there's a method using extra gnome shadow magic cheese to make hyperreal shadow creatures, and that includes the simulacrums, which will either be at 100% capacity or more than that.

That said, it's all a matter of what the DM lets you get away with.

[Set]

Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:

I believe there's a method using extra gnome shadow magic cheese to make hyperreal shadow creatures, and that includes the simulacrums, which will either be at 100% capacity or more than that.

That said, it's all a matter of what the DM lets you get away with.

3.0 was even more fun, because the numbers were like 51-60% or something, making it an Empowerable and Maximizable random die roll. There might even have been some way to stack Empowers, but I don't remember cheese that old and stinky real well...

[Jeff Jenkins]

Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:

I believe there's a method using extra gnome shadow magic cheese to make hyperreal shadow creatures, and that includes the simulacrums, which will either be at 100% capacity or more than that.

That said, it's all a matter of what the DM lets you get away with.

I know it is a little cheesy...but pathfinder took out the requirement for a piece of the creature to be simmed...all it says is "any creature" and that one needs a snow statue. No piece or body required. That means that you can sim anything that you have a picture of. I agree, though, that this could be easily eliminated with a house rule.

[Mirror, Mirror]

Yes, possibly abusive, but that depends on the DM.

And you don't even need those heroes of legend. Just take your own party members. A squad of archers led by the ranger? A horde of barbarians led by good old Thog? Low-level magic support provided by your own copies (especially if they all prepare to counterspell or something). How about spamming the cleric? Healing batteries, anyone?

And these copies can use items. "Yes, I would like 7 scrolls of Heal, 7 of Disintegrate, 7 of Summon Natures Ally VI, and, hmm, 7 potions of Improved Invisibility for my rogue friends here. Hey everyone, it that all?"

[dulsin]

Or every member of the party can just take leadership. All level 1 followers will be sorcerers with Magic missile.

100+ Magic missiles hit the dragon each round..... Where is the horde?

Scratch that. All followers will be high charisma Cat-Girl sorcerers! Now that is a fantasy game for you =P

[Mirror, Mirror]

dulsin wrote:

Scratch that. All followers will be high charisma Cat-Girl sorcerers! Now that is a fantasy game for you =P

I WAS going to avoid the benefits of cloning the hot sorceress and bard, but, meh.

Even if you need a part of the creature, how about some Roc feathers? Nothing like flying mounts for the party...

[QOShea]

dulsin wrote:

Or every member of the party can just take leadership. All level 1 followers will be sorcerers with Magic missile.

100+ Magic missiles hit the dragon each round..... Where is the horde?

Scratch that. All followers will be high charisma Cat-Girl sorcerers! Now that is a fantasy game for you =P

Eh, do dragons still get spell resistance? Then it's just going to grin at them all before trying to snack on them.

[Ravingdork]

You don't need body parts of any kind to create a simulacrum in Pathfinder. The relevant text was removed since v3.5. Among other things, that means you don't even need to have met the creature you are making a sim out of, though I'm sure many GMs will rule differently, as James has.

James was kind enough to answer several simulacrum questions here if you are interested.