Legally, you're pretty much down to used book stores and eBay.
The real fun is that the reason they yoinked it in the first place was ostensibly piracy, yet everything WotC and TSR ever put out can still be pirated within minutes without any trouble, so they're basically just throwing market share out the window.
*WotC bashing*
Yawn. Get over it. If a company doesn't want to put items out (old or new) for sale in pdf form, they don't have to. It is their copyright material and they can do with it what they want. You want the older stuff, go and find it in the used market and purchase it there. Jeez, you'd think that books were never rereleased before. How did the people before the internet and pdfs survive when books were no longer published?
I remember when the pdfs were pulled and people were upset that they didn't get to download them for the nth time. I told my wife that purchases patterns online in pdfs and she asked, "You mean you used to be able to download it more than once?" I think that kind of tells you how out of touch most gamers are with the real world. Entitlement mentality run rampant.
*WotC bashing*
WotC lamenting, not bashing.
Yawn. Get over it. If a company doesn't want to put items out (old or new) for sale in pdf form, they don't have to. It is their copyright material and they can do with it what they want. You want the older stuff, go and find it in the used market and purchase it there.
Your point?
Jeez, you'd think that books were never rereleased before. How did the people before the internet and pdfs survive when books were no longer published?
I'm curious - has anything TSR/WoTC, RPG-wise, been re-released after being superseded by a newer version? Can you name any such item, pre-Internet/pre-PDF?
I remember when the pdfs were pulled and people were upset that they didn't get to download them for the nth time. I told my wife that purchases patterns online in pdfs and she asked, "You mean you used to be able to download it more than once?" I think that kind of tells you how out of touch most gamers are with the real world. Entitlement mentality run rampant.
Right. People who relied on their digital lockers as a storage medium instead of local storage are suffering from "Entitlement Mentality".
You don't like so-called WotC bashing? I don't like your bashing of the people in this thread. You're completely offensive.
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Taking away our ability to access, buy or otherwise legally download previous sold .pdfs is nothing short of a DISNEY move to lock up items in a vault to increase scarcity. At its worst, it smells of an attempt to hide the way the game was originally played from those who would use the material to carry on the traditions and 30+ year history of the game. They did it at night, with less than 3 hours notice to companies and consumers. They were being a dick, no matter how anyone tries to defend it.
There are many local FLGS stores that carry, or can acquire "the old stuff" for you. You can also check out many fan sites, and would be surprised how many people play First Edition or 1e via OSRIC 2.0.
Is there something in-particular you're looking for?
Taking away our ability to access, buy or otherwise legally download previous sold .pdfs is nothing short of a DISNEY move to lock up items in a vault to increase scarcity. At its worst, it smells of an attempt to hide the way the game was originally played from those who would use the material to carry on the traditions and 30+ year history of the game. They did it at night, with less than 3 hours notice to companies and consumers. They were being a dick, no matter how anyone tries to defend it.
Agreed.
Just because someone can do something with something that is their legal property doesn't mean that they should. And it doesn't make it any less of a Jerkish move when they do.
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If a company no longer wishes to sell a work that it holds a copyright upon, that work should pass directly into the public domain. Copyright was intended to increase the dissemination of works, not provide a further means for authors (creators) to withhold their works - they already have that; don't publish.
Consider a world where WotC had never sold pdfs, and thus never stopped selling them (since they never started). In that world, would they be jerks for not selling when a new edition came out?
If a company no longer wishes to sell a work that it holds a copyright upon, that work should pass directly into the public domain. Copyright was intended to increase the dissemination of works, not provide a further means for authors (creators) to withhold their works - they already have that; don't publish.
I agree with you, unforunately the laws do not. I think copyright is too strict, I think if I want to write a story and publish it set in the Star Wars Universe, I shouldn't have to get on my knees and give Jar-Jar a oral agreement. Sadly, the laws are getting more strict not less. You have grandkids of artists/writers, who have never produced anything themselves, still living off of the works of their dead ancestors (Tolkiens, I'm looking at you) and the laws are making this more likely not less.
Still, who is to say a new manager/chairman wouldn't come in a later date and say, "Let's reprint this old stuff and slap some 'classic' stickers on them." By forcing it to go into the public domain, you are taking away that future endeavor.
By the way, just to point out that on WotC's site there is still the 3.5 SRD for free download, as well as countless free 3.x adventures. You just have to work to find them is all. Still if they were so dedicated to crushing the past editions, to the point of sending ninjas in the night to kill the pirates, I would expect those to be removed from their site (in fact I quickly downloaded as many as I could when 4e was released because I expected them to be removed). The fact that they haven't seems to fly in the face of all the conspiracy theories.
Consider a world where WotC had never sold pdfs, and thus never stopped selling them (since they never started). In that world, would they be jerks for not selling when a new edition came out?
If there's still a buyer demand for it? Absolutely. Such an excellent way to alienate your customer base.
@Brock: Amen.
Consider a world where WotC had never sold pdfs, and thus never stopped selling them (since they never started). In that world, would they be jerks for not selling when a new edition came out?If there's still a buyer demand for it? Absolutely. Such an excellent way to alienate your customer base.
@Brock: Amen.
So every single company that produces anything (say publish, we'll limit it to that), and doesn't put it out for sale as a pdf when they decide to no longer publish it on the offhand chance that someone might want it, is a jerk? Wow, there are quite a huge number of jerk companies out there.
So every single company that produces anything (say publish, we'll limit it to that), and doesn't put it out for sale as a pdf when they decide to no longer publish it on the offhand chance that someone might want it, is a jerk? Wow, there are quite a huge number of jerk companies out there.Consider a world where WotC had never sold pdfs, and thus never stopped selling them (since they never started). In that world, would they be jerks for not selling when a new edition came out?If there's still a buyer demand for it? Absolutely. Such an excellent way to alienate your customer base.
@Brock: Amen.
That there are. And I tend to stop buying their stuff when they stop selling the stuff I do want.
I don't personally care what format its in, digital or Dead Tree Edition. I do want it available.
Still, who is to say a new manager/chairman wouldn't come in a later date and say, "Let's reprint this old stuff and slap some 'classic' stickers on them." By forcing it to go into the public domain, you are taking away that future endeavor.
I do believe that's where the "Disney Vault" reference was aimed, yes.
Yawn. Get over it. If a company doesn't want to put items out (old or new) for sale in pdf form, they don't have to. It is their copyright material and they can do with it what they want. You want the older stuff, go and find it in the used market and purchase it there. Jeez, you'd think that books were never rereleased before. How did the people before the internet and pdfs survive when books were no longer published?
<snip>
Consider a world where WotC had never sold pdfs, and thus never stopped selling them (since they never started). In that world, would they be jerks for not selling when a new edition came out?
<snip>
So every single company that produces anything (say publish, we'll limit it to that), and doesn't put it out for sale as a pdf when they decide to no longer publish it on the offhand chance that someone might want it, is a jerk? Wow, there are quite a huge number of jerk companies out there.
If WotC never bothered making them available in the first place, that would have been fine. Then I would think that they had more important, more profitable, things to worry about. What's frustrating is that WotC COULD HAVE kept them available, easily, but chose not to.
By the way, just to point out that on WotC's site there is still the 3.5 SRD for free download, as well as countless free 3.x adventures. You just have to work to find them is all. Still if they were so dedicated to crushing the past editions, to the point of sending ninjas in the night to kill the pirates, I would expect those to be removed from their site (in fact I quickly downloaded as many as I could when 4e was released because I expected them to be removed). The fact that they haven't seems to fly in the face of all the conspiracy theories.
True. I downloaded a very useful 3.5-related file from WotC just this week. WotC could be worse. It could also be better.
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If a company no longer wishes to sell a work that it holds a copyright upon, that work should pass directly into the public domain. Copyright was intended to increase the dissemination of works, not provide a further means for authors (creators) to withhold their works - they already have that; don't publish.Still, who is to say a new manager/chairman wouldn't come in a later date and say, "Let's reprint this old stuff and slap some 'classic' stickers on them." By forcing it to go into the public domain, you are taking away that future endeavor.
That, is a very good point. As a counter point, placing the work into the public domain might allow a second company to derive a new work from it or even continue to sell the work - people still pay for books that are available free from the Guttenberg project. The choice is still up to the original copyright holder.
Personally I'd like to see the end of exactly that kind of endeavour - there is no real creative work in just republishing a 'classic' product.
I'm of the believe that copyright should foster innovation. A creator should have to compete against their own past products. It benefits society by promoting the creation of new and fresh works.
Full disclosure : I'm a software author who depends on copyright to earn a living.
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If WotC never bothered making them available in the first place, that would have been fine. Then I would think that they had more important, more profitable, things to worry about. What's frustrating is that WotC COULD HAVE kept them available, easily, but chose not to.
I was fortunate enough to purchase most of the old edition pdfs I was interested in before the licence was being withdrawn. Still there were quite some pdfs which I couldn't and probably never will be able to buy now. :(
Nevertheless WotC has any right and quite some reason for doing what they did. They certainly alienated quite some people out there. But on the other hand the original posting shows that there are always people who don't know about that.
And in the end WotC just might want to discontinue any unwanted distraction like old edition products which might compare favourably with their new products or their new digital products.
Cheers,
Günther