I have just run fortress of the stone giants which resulted in the characters sneaking quite successfully into the lower levels, killing only a few stone giants, befriending Conna, heading to the lower level, not getting in to the library and having a battle to a standstill against Mokmurian resulting in him fleeing to get reinforcements. They were at that stage forced to grab what they could and teleport out.
They had already ambushed the returning sandpoint raid giants at the Storval stairs and rescued the captured Sandpointers but I had the ‘lighthouse stone’ not be with them.
I am not a big fan on the ‘rest for a day and teleport back in to finish the job’ plan. Once a battle has been fought it is done IMO so I am looking for alternative suggestions from here.
It seems to me I could just have them launch in to the next adventure back in Sandpoint and have Mokmurian continue to gather his forces but I am not sure then what to do with Mokmurian and his giant army, plus the library seems to hold the clues for the future.
Suggestions please.
I am not a big fan on the ‘rest for a day and teleport back in to finish the job’ plan. Once a battle has been fought it is done IMO so I am looking for alternative suggestions from here.Suggestions please.
I suggest you let go of anti-teleport bias. There's your problem. There's no RP reason why the PCs wouldn't use their powers to continue the fight. Design how Mok sets up his defenses and have them start again. Modules for any level are simply not designed with "you only get one shot at this" in mind, especially not this one. Don't derail both the path and what they want to do simply because of this.
I am not a big fan on the ‘rest for a day and teleport back in to finish the job’ plan. Once a battle has been fought it is done IMO so I am looking for alternative suggestions from here.
Actually, what is to stop the player characters from doing exactly that?
In fact, given time, the giants would be able to gather/build very sigificant resources. So logically, the heroes going back "to finish the job" as soon as possible would be the right thing for the characters to do. They clearly have the necessary powers - is there a character based reason why they would do something else?
Don't use GM Fiat to keep the players from acting as their characters would actually act.
It seems to me I could just have them launch in to the next adventure back in Sandpoint and have Mokmurian continue to gather his forces
Well, in my experience most players won’t bite into a new adventure hook, as long as they are emotionally invested in something else.
And they certainly may still be obsessed with revenge on the giants for now.If you force them to do something against their interests it could break your campaign, I have seen things like that happen.
If "Once a battle is fought, it is done" is your plan, how do you anticipate dealing with the army. That can't possibly be done in one shot alone, and if they get help, well, wars are virtually never one battle long.
I think you're stuck with a multiple engagement. Do you want that after a huge army's been raised and you're a long ways away from the next step in the adventure or do you want to let them teleport back in?
Once a battle has been fought it is done IMO so I am looking for alternative suggestions from here.
What's your definition of "a battle" in this context? Is it the location? Is it okay if the PCs fight Mokmurian again, just someplace else? He has thirty frost giants en route, so would adding them make it a different battle?
What if the army is complete once the Frost Giants arrive and starts to advance? It could go down the Storval Stairs and attack Ravenmoor (an extremely fun location, in my opinion, particularly if the PCs get there first).
I think that we can help you solve this in the way that you want it solved, but I'm not entirely clear what our limitations are. Please expand on what I quoted above, if you don't mind.
Thanks for the responses. I will take on board the comments especially about not thwarting the players through DM fiat.
I am not against another fight in another location with Mok- in fact IMO it has to be that way. The way it is set up when the PC's first get to Jorgenfist Mok is waiting for his forces to gather while spending his time in the depths researching stuff on his own. After a bunch of adventurers break into his fortress and attempt to assassinate him (and nearly suceed) I would imagine he would change that. He would gather a group of bodyguards, try and find out how the assassins got in and shore up his defences. And of course ensure he did not spend anytime in places they knew well enough to teleport in to.
I guess my bias against the parties rest for a day and teleport back to a do-over type approach to the battle is twofold.
1- They have done this battle it can get a bit tedious repeating it; and
2- It seems more like DM fiat to have all the monsters just stand around where they were waiting for the PC's to return.
As for the PC's not wanting to let him go I understand this emotion but I have no issue with the PC's failing to kill an enemy every now and then. You cant win them all. To me once they have 'blown their surprise attack' they may need to come up with some other method of defeating this wizard/warlord.
Some more information
- did I already say they had rescued the sandpointers?
- the leader of the raid on sandpoint got away as did longtooth
- As an encounter before they got to Jorgenfist they encountered a frost giant emmissary leaving the Mountains on mammothback. They killed him and worked out he was heading back to his tribe to bring them back to Jorgenfist - hence they have delayed this alliance.
- they captured that kobold barbarian (cant remember her name)
- they have looted Mok's desk so they can have a fair idea of his plans etc.
As for the general point about it being possible to scry an enemy while they sleep/rest, buff up and teleport in to assasinate them I admit I do find this a bit of an antithesis to the adventure game concept. At high level it becomes a bit of an arms race. My players dont like this style of game either- so really the this is the limitation. This and Mok just going back to his day to day action such that it is a complete repeat. I am happy to have then find another way to get to him in Jorgenfist (maybe through Conna having to reveal her treachery), or for K to send Mok to battle soon (dead giants is OK for K), or for the whole army growing to be a thing happening in the background while they explore the runeforge- only to come back with new tricks and powers to meet Moks army as it does battle over Riddleport (gotta be a few greedy souls there) etc
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As a parallel to your situation, one of the groups who I am running through Burnt Offerings retreated after facing off against Nualia, her Yeth Hound and Bruthazmus (he managed to retreat to the lower level). They went back to Sandpoint, rested, got healed, reequipped and went back.
In thinking over the situation, I had Bruthazmus grab a couple of the goblins who had not fled and reset the bridge to a light load (which the PCs found) and rig an alchemist fire to the main entrance (which they did not). The party charged straight downstairs ... and into an ambush set up by the bugbear. He had built up a makeshift barrier (4' tall of beds, cages, other debris ... enough to give partial cover) between the main stairs coming down to level two and the doors leading to the prison and the hall to the rooms leading to level three.
He pegged the PCs fairly severely before fleeing back downstairs (and almost getting dropped in flight ... I even gave the ranger a parting shot with his bow and described the miss in the most dramatic fashion possible). The final showdown between these folks was fairly epic, with one PC dropping to negatives (but was healed the following round) and two others getting knocked down quite a bit before they did in Nualia and the last of her underlings.
Bottom line is, if they want to go back to the scene of the last fight, let them. Just be sure to change around aspects of the layout for an opponent who has just experienced their defenses being breached.
I don't think anyone was objecting to you re-organizing the defenses after the players retreat.
That is to be expected. As well, spell lists should be changed to take into consideration the combat tactics that the players showed (and probably favor).