No Archmage? Need a Conversion

[kevin_video]

So the Archmage is nowhere to be seen in the PrC update. Why not? They are part of the SRD, right? I guess the same goes for Blackguard and Red Wizard. Maybe they'll be a base class? I'd heard that about the Blackguard anyways.

So my question is, how should the Archmage be upgraded? I'm really needing it as we're supposed to go PF at conventions now, to show it off, but I'd designed my original campaign around 3.5 D&D.

From how things are now, about all one could do is go d6 for HD. Anything higer would kind of ridiculous. They lose the +2 strong Will (much like other PrC's and their +2), so are only +3 instead of +4 at 5th, but that's okay because they're getting +2 instead of +1 Fort and Ref. That balances out. But considering all the major upgrades to the other PrCs, that can't be all they're getting. Not to mention they're a pretty tough PrC to get into in the first place.

I'm thinking a bonus spellcaster feat at 1st, 3rd, and 5th. Kind of like what they did for the Eldritch Knight who got two extra bonus feats, spell critical, and d10 HD. The feat can be a metamagic feat, a sudden metamagic feat, or just a regular spellcaster feat like Spell Penetration.

[Zurai]

You're going to get a lot of people telling you that there's no need for the Archmage, and probably attract a few flames as well.

However, the good news is that the only conversion the Archmage needs is to adjust the saves to match the Pathfinder Prestige Class standards, increase the hit die to d6 to match the new BAB-governs-HD rule, and to fix the class skill list. The rest of the class can be used as-is.

[Morgen]

The reason it doesn't have an upgrade is mostly the fact that the improvements to the wizard base class kind of remove a need for it.

That and I don't think it's OGL? Not 100% on that.

[Zurai]

Morgen wrote:

The reason it doesn't have an upgrade is mostly the fact that the improvements to the wizard base class kind of remove a need for it.

No, it doesn't.

Quote:

That and I don't think it's OGL? Not 100% on that.

Yes, it is.

[Charles Evans 25]

I think Paizo were taking the line that any high level wizard is entitled to call themself an archmage, and for one reason or another the class disappeared. There is something rumoured to be in the works for a full class which can be used as a blackguard in the future (possibly the advanced player's book?).
The Red Wizard, on the other hand, is I suspect not OGL - I just had a quick look on the d20 SRD and I couldn't find it there. I believe it may have been too tied up with the Faerûn setting for Wizards of the Coast to let it into the SRD as OGL material.

As to the Archmage upgrade yes I would agree that you need to increase the hit dice size to d6, and bring the saving throws back down to make them in line with other prestige classes.
One thing I believe Paizo were trying to do with PFRPG was to ensure that the prestige classes were not automatically better than the base classes, although for the generalist wizard these days it's arguable whether or not they succeeded in keeping the class worth sticking with.
If you have access to a copy of the Beta playtest, you might like to look at the version of the generalist wizard capstone (20th level ability) in there, and introduce that as a feature of the archmage class.

[kevin_video]

Charles Evans 25 wrote:

I think Paizo were taking the line that any high level wizard is entitled to call themself an archmage, and for one reason or another the class disappeared.

That's not fair though because any arcane user can be an archmage if they wanted to be. As long as you met the prereqs, I can't think of a single class that couldn't be one, and gain their abilities. I know people who played sorcerer/archmages all the time just because they didn't know how to use the wizard as a god-like character like other players seem to be able to.

I do have the beta playtest one, so I'll have a look at that.

@ Zurai - I don't believe this is a class that doesn't need an upgrade, like the Spellsword, or the Abjurant Champion. Those needed to be downplayed just a touch, but that's about it. And the only reason people are angry about how powerful these three PrCs are, is because they're being used by veteran players using wizards. I'll admit that my sorcerer/fighter/abj champ sucked. Obviously I wasn't playing it right. Others said it was because I stupidly went with sorcerer instead of wizard (the ultimate god of characters). *shrugs* Personally I like my rangers.

[kyrt-ryder]

As an alternative, you might consider the archmage abilities to be feats, for example.

Mastery of Elements:
Requires: Give up one 8th level spell slot permanently in the process of taking this feat.
Benefits: Mastery of Elements
The archmage can alter an arcane spell when cast so that it utilizes a different element from the one it normally uses. This ability can only alter a spell with the acid, cold, fire, electricity, or sonic descriptor. The spell’s casting time is unaffected. The caster decides whether to alter the spell’s energy type and chooses the new energy type when he begins casting.

Now, in most cases I don't actually promote turning a prestige class into feats, but the Archmage had two (TWO) spell focus feats as requirements to get in. Now, most casters don't take a spell focus, though it's not all that uncommon. But almost no caster ever takes 2 spell foci, so in this case you basically are getting the option to take the feat in place of the prereqs. (Also, I'd argue that it's nice because you get to keep your class features and gain the ability)

[Quandary]

Jason has mentioned he considers the unique abilities of the Archmage to be worth-while,
but is inclined to implement them as high-caster level Feats, perhaps in the Advanced Player's Guide.

If you search the boards for "Archmage",
there's plenty of previous discussion on this topic, with commentary from Jason and the folks at Paizo.

[kevin_video]

Quandary wrote:

Jason has mentioned he considers the unique abilities of the Archmage to be worth-while,

but is inclined to implement them as high-caster level Feats, perhaps in the Advanced Player's Guide.

If you search the boards for "Archmage",
there's plenty of previous discussion on this topic, with commentary from Jason and the folks at Paizo.

That's actually what I tried originally, and then just went Crtl F "archmage", and nothing. So I started up my own thread.

[Quandary]

Well, believe me, there have been plenty of such discussions/threads,
so perhaps there's some Evil Archmage out there sabotaging the Search function? :-)

(I haven't found the Search here to be dependable in general, though it does work SOMETIMES.)

[kevin_video]

Quandary wrote:

Well, believe me, there have been plenty of such discussions/threads,

so perhaps there's some Evil Archmage out there sabotaging the Search function? :-)

(I haven't found the Search here to be dependable in general, though it does work SOMETIMES.)

Yeah, when it says it's not down. Much like the boards.

I did find it though. The basic consensus was that the abilities should be made into feats, or that by itself it was balanced already with no changes whatsoever, or others saying that increasing the HD and changing the little things would balance it. Personally I think just about everyone on that particular thread was smoking crack that day.

[Quandary]

Probably. I think they're smoking crack just about every day :-)