What do stats mean?
Before I go, perhaps you are wondering why do it matter?
Well I am sure you have looked at some stat block and said "I want want to give life to this" you may have said something different but the jist is the same.
Its hard to look at these numbers and bring them to life so this is why bought it up.
Get people thinking about these numbers as something more than numbers
See when I think about them and I look at some of the odd comparsions that have been made like take for example this.
In the 3.5 players handbook a wisdom of 13 was described as on par with an owlbear.
How does that help you?
It's not even real how can you compare that?
Sure it also says that thats as wise as Hyena but again how does that help you?
However there more useful comparisons..
So how strong is strength 13 how much can he bench?
Well if your into your stats enough you can look at loads and you can see that you double there maxium load which 150 pounds making that 300.
So 136 kilos.
Do you have any idea how much that is?
Thats huge!
That mean that they can bench a wieght lifter.
But what about dexterity or constitution how do you compare there?
Intellgence I have always added a zero on the end and compared with IQ.
According to the Wechsler Adult Intelligence
Classification of Intelligence according to IQ scores Classification IQ Range
Profound mental retardation (MR) below 20 or 25
Severe MR 20-25 to 35-40
Moderate MR 35-40 to 50-55
Mild MR 50-55 to about 70
Borderline 70-79
Dull normal 80 to 90
Normal 90 to 110
Bright normal 110 to 120
Superior 120 to 130
Very superior 130 and above
I have always thought it was all about these numbers.
7 and 13.
I would say that 'normal' in all things ranges between 8 and 12.
When you meet an NPC with a int of 8 you might lie and make tell him slight things but your not going to outright try and tell him that that acid over there is a warm refreshing bath now are you?
I would say 13 is what denotes somebody being expectional at something thats why it has traditionally being the entry stat into many of that stat's 'speical' feats.
So the inverse 7 is also the stat where people start becoming incapable of doing something effectively.
And this leads me to one of the points from this.
Stat dumping.
See if you explain to someone that if they dumb intellgence to 5 look at the IQ chart add a zero and then...
"Dude, you know your plaing a mildly mentally retarded person"
If there answer is anything but "wait, What?!" or something along that sentment then perhaps something is wrong or you have the very best role playing group that I know
because I have not yet seen anyone be able to play mental retardation without insulting it.
Which leads me to something else.
Lose of a Stat.
Also technically you can only die from one type of stat lose the other are just very very annoying.
This is a whole side arguement but without getting into it to much I think that character death can be very rewarding.
It can advance the story in ways that nothing else can.
John Wick said "Good game are about Revenge, you can have other by why would you want to" (note about the 'master' there thats a third person quote I did not hear it from him just from someone quoting him on a podcast)
Apperently a lose of charisma makes someone completely catatonic.
What would make you hate your BBEG more than having to go home to replenish your stocks and you have to go and feed soup to Regdar, his eyes somewhere else because he has been lost to that moment when Ialdabode stole something more intrinsic than his soul, something that you could return to him, he stole his spirit.
Anyway some thoughts I thought I should share.
I would love to hear or read as the case maybe, yours.
Thanks guys.
So how strong is strength 13 how much can he bench?
Well if your into your stats enough you can look at loads and you can see that you double there maxium load which 150 pounds making that 300.
So 136 kilos.
Actually, the rules say "A character can lift as much as double his maximum load off the ground, but he or she can only stagger around with it." I would interpret this to mean deadlift instead of bench press. Still, deadlifting 136 kg is huge but not that crazy than bench pressing the same weight. I guess we'll have to assume that anything beyond 15 in a stat is super-human.
I agree with you regarding INT. The lowest I allow in my game is an INT of 10 before any racial adjustments. You are absolutly right about people roleplaying low intelligence PCs its quite hard not to let actual player intelligence slip into the equation. Higher intelligence is easier to handle by giving a few DM inspired hints. That is one of the reasons why I like Runequest where INT is rolled 2d6+6.
Charisma I see as three things, force of personality, social skills and to a lesser extent appearance.
Well ethier way it is pretty crazy.
The deltoids are not nearily as strong as the pectorals and it notes that at a strength of 13 that they can lift, 150 pounds above there head (68 kilos)
It wouldn't be stupid to assume that they could bench somewhere between that and there 'lifting and dragging weight'.
I guess I always default back to that old AD&D thing 'maximum press'
(showing my age, young to some ancient to others).
Which always sounded like weight lifting to me.
Also that brings another thought to mind.
I doubt the average adventure would know do a deadlift.
They would most proberly do things the back breaking way...
I mean gymnastics programs have only been around for 300 years or so?
Thats pretty modern and where alot of modern exercise comes from.
Anywho thats something interesting too.
So maybe not 130 kg for bench but I would argue if A character can lift as much as his maximum load over his head. then he could most proberly bench more.
So yes adventures, the super mutants of yesterday.
Charisma I see as three things, force of personality, social skills and to a lesser extent appearance.
I have always seen Charisma not at all appearance, because take a look at things like mind flayers.
There Charisma is off the chart.All of our tingly sense would be going off when we see them the same as when we see tapeworms.
However I would say it has alot to do with force of personality and to a less extent social grace.
See grace in one area of our would translates as somewhat differently in other areas.
Just the little things.
But then again a person with soical grace seems to quickly learn the ins and outs of a new culture and it is different sort of intellgence, there has been many a great sitcom about that.
Big Bang anyone?
So yeah I would most proberly agree with you on that most proberly appearance has the least to do with it because D&D is a empowerment game.
Well ethier way it is pretty crazy.
The deltoids are not nearily as strong as the pectorals and it notes that at a strength of 13 that they can lift, 150 pounds above there head (68 kilos) It wouldn't be stupid to assume that they could bench somewhere between that and there 'lifting and dragging weight'.
No it wouldn't - but having a decent Strength score and applying it technically isn't the same - the overhead press of 68 kilos might seem low but very few cultures in PFRPG would actively practice weight lifting [from a technical lifting stand point] - so I don't necessarily think its that off. I do Olympic lifting and can Clean/Jerk over 100kg, now that gives me a STR on 16/17 for lifting - now I dunno if that's accurate [my deadlifts 180kg so maybe] - however my bench is probably my weakest area [112kg] so taking me as an average the numbers are slightly off - that's where the practice/training and use of the muscles would come into play?
Also that brings another thought to mind.
I doubt the average adventure would know do a deadlift.
They would most proberly do things the back breaking way...QUOTE]Again true, but some backgrounds [farming. industry, smithies and soldiers would be well versed at lifting/carrying heavy loads] - likewise some cultures - the Ulfen no doubt have the same strongman/stone lifting/feats of strenght culture that our "vikings" and norse/northmen did... think of the highland games culture [the historical nature of the different events] here in Scotland, we know how to lift and throw cabers, hammers, stone lifting is big here etc... so cultures might play a role here too?
Your right most folk wouldn't lift right [most folk don't anyway!] and they'll be characters and people who have been made strong, those that are just plain strong and those who with the right training and application "don't look their strength"...
So that sense the 13 as an above average average might not seem to off?
Anyway my two runes worth :)