Breaking Down the Sun Blade

[Sir Hexen Ineptus]

Hello Paizo,
I was wondering, could I get some help breaking apart the cost per effect of the sun blade?

I am specifically looking at the effect allowing it to act as both the short sword and bastard sword at the same time.

I will start working on this on my end, but if anyone wants to pitch in or has done this already that would be great.

Thanks

PRD wrote:

Sun Blade

Aura moderate evocation; CL 10th

Slot none; Price 50,335 gp; Weight 2 lbs.

DESCRIPTION

This sword is the size of a bastard sword. However, a sun blade is wielded as if it were a short sword with respect to weight and ease of use. In other words, the weapon appears to all viewers to be a bastard sword, and deals bastard sword damage, but the wielder feels and reacts as if the weapon were a short sword. Any individual able to use either a bastard sword or a short sword with proficiency is proficient in the use of a sun blade. Likewise, Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization in short sword and bastard sword apply equally, but the benefits of those feats do not stack.

In normal combat, the glowing golden blade of the weapon is equal to a +2 bastard sword. Against evil creatures, its enhancement bonus is +4. Against Negative Energy Plane creatures or undead creatures, the sword deals double damage (and ×3 on a critical hit instead of the usual ×2).

The blade also has a special sunlight power. Once per day, the wielder can swing the blade vigorously above his head while speaking a command word. The sun blade then sheds a bright yellow radiance that acts like bright light and affects creatures susceptible to light as if it were natural sunlight. The radiance begins shining in a 10-foot radius around the sword wielder and extends outward at 5 feet per round for 10 rounds thereafter, to create a globe of light with a 60-foot radius. When the wielder stops swinging, the radiance fades to a dim glow that persists for another minute before disappearing entirely. All sun blades are of good alignment, and any evil creature attempting to wield one gains one negative level. The negative level remains as long as the sword is in hand and disappears when the sword is no longer wielded. This negative level cannot be overcome in any way (including by restoration spells) while the sword is wielded.

Construction

Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armor, daylight, creator must be good; Cost 25,335 gp

[Sir Hexen Ineptus]

Quick First Step

A. Weapon Cost subtracted
B. Eliminating Alignment Discount.
C. +2 weapon effect

50,335
A. -335 (Weapon)
50000
B. *7/10 (Discount)
71428.5 (71428.571428571428571428571428571 rounded)
C. -8000 (+2 weapon)
63428.5

So next is on of these

+2 additional enhancement against bonus vs Evil Outsiders and x3 multiplier.

Sun Effect

Wielding Bastard Sword as Short Sword.

P.S. After a quick second thought, I turns out this total is exactly the same cost as a +5 weapon, 50,000 gold.

So then we have to figure out what the other +3 effects are what, but at this point, maybe +1 for each as they don't seem too off, but there is no wording as if this should be considered a +5 weapon.

[Maezer]

I would mark the short sword to bastard sword ability as a +2 additional enchancement. And I might be undervaluating it as I think it makes for an exceptional off-hand value ability.

[Freesword]

Not all items in the 3.5 SRD were priced according to the item creation guidelines. The sunblade appears to have been copied to Pathfinder unmodified from 3.x. In fact it appears it's abilities are consistent back to 2nd edition AD&D. 2nd edition had no price guide for magic items and actively discouraged buying and selling them. The only value attached to a sunblade in 2nd edition was an XP value, 3000 XP which is the same XP value attached to a +5 weapon. Because of this it was probably priced the same as a +5 weapon when it was converted from 2nd to 3.x. Most likely there is no official price breakdown of the individual abilities.

I'll advance my own personal theory on approximate pricing:

Base price............... 50,335
mw bastard sword..... -335
Magical cost............ 50,000

PRD wrote:

In normal combat, the glowing golden blade of the weapon is equal to a +2 bastard sword. Against evil creatures, its enhancement bonus is +4. Against Negative Energy Plane creatures or undead creatures, the sword deals double damage (and ×3 on a critical hit instead of the usual ×2).

So we have a +2 bastard sword which appears to have a modified version of holy which is a +2 ability and would account for the wielders alignment restriction.

Magical Cost...... 50,000
+4 weapon....... -32,000
Remaining cost.. 18,000

PRD wrote:

The blade also has a special sunlight power. Once per day, the wielder can swing the blade vigorously above his head while speaking a command word. The sun blade then sheds a bright yellow radiance that acts like bright light and affects creatures susceptible to light as if it were natural sunlight. The radiance begins shining in a 10-foot radius around the sword wielder and extends outward at 5 feet per round for 10 rounds thereafter, to create a globe of light with a 60-foot radius. When the wielder stops swinging, the radiance fades to a dim glow that persists for another minute before disappearing entirely.

A heavily modified version of the Daylight spell with increased effect but greatly reduced duration. The base cost to add Daylight would be 8100 (3rd level spell * 5th level caster * 1800 command word activation / 5 single use per day * 1.5 additional non-related ability). The normal duration for the spell is 10 min / level vs the 2 minutes (10 rounds to reach full effect and 1 minute lingering illumination) for this ability, but the the ability affects creatures susceptible to light where the spell does not. Therefore I consider this a fair ballpark approximation for an appropriate price.

Remaining cost.. 18,000
daylight effect.... -8,000
Remaining cost.. 10,000

PRD wrote:

This sword is the size of a bastard sword. However, a sun blade is wielded as if it were a short sword with respect to weight and ease of use. In other words, the weapon appears to all viewers to be a bastard sword, and deals bastard sword damage, but the wielder feels and reacts as if the weapon were a short sword. Any individual able to use either a bastard sword or a short sword with proficiency is proficient in the use of a sun blade. Likewise, Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization in short sword and bastard sword apply equally, but the benefits of those feats do not stack.

This effect is most likely based on the AD&D spell Enlarge which in 3.x became Enlarge Person. It is again a highly modified spell effect. Base cost would be 6000 (1st level spell * 1st level caster * 2000 continuous effect * 2 spell duration 1 min per level * 1.5 additional non-related ability) [ooc]Note: the AD&D spell had a duration of 5 rounds per level with 1 round being approximately 1 minute. I use the duration of the 3.x spell as reference as it should be the appropriate basis for determining the cost.

Remaining cost.. 10,000
size effect.......... -6,000
Remaining cost.... 4,000

Yes, this leaves 4000 unaccounted for which I consider a fudge factor in my guestimation of the costs of the various abilities. Redistribute as you feel appropriate.

Edit: Sorry about the alignment of the math, board won't recognize leading spaces and the spacing in the editor doesn't match the output due to different font. I tried.

[Beckett]

Also, the original Sun Swords (Blades?) were made of a glass like material, but as strong as steel. I'm not sure if that is mentioned in the 3E version, but that special material could be a cause. It was essentually like double mithral. The blade was actaully a Bastard Sword, but so light it felt like a Short Sword.

[Aelryinth]

Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

Hello Paizo,

I was wondering, could I get some help breaking apart the cost per effect of the sun blade?

I am specifically looking at the effect allowing it to act as both the short sword and bastard sword at the same time.

I will start working on this on my end, but if anyone wants to pitch in or has done this already that would be great.

Thanks

PRD wrote:

Sun Blade

Aura moderate evocation; CL 10th

Slot none; Price 50,335 gp; Weight 2 lbs.

DESCRIPTION

This sword is the size of a bastard sword. However, a sun blade is wielded as if it were a short sword with respect to weight and ease of use. In other words, the weapon appears to all viewers to be a bastard sword, and deals bastard sword damage, but the wielder feels and reacts as if the weapon were a short sword. Any individual able to use either a bastard sword or a short sword with proficiency is proficient in the use of a sun blade. Likewise, Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization in short sword and bastard sword apply equally, but the benefits of those feats do not stack.

In normal combat, the glowing golden blade of the weapon is equal to a +2 bastard sword. Against evil creatures, its enhancement bonus is +4. Against Negative Energy Plane creatures or undead creatures, the sword deals double damage (and ×3 on a critical hit instead of the usual ×2).

The blade also has a special sunlight power. Once per day, the wielder can swing the blade vigorously above his head while speaking a command word. The sun blade then sheds a bright yellow radiance that acts like bright light and affects creatures susceptible to light as if it were natural sunlight. The radiance begins shining in a 10-foot radius around the sword wielder and extends outward at 5 feet per round for 10 rounds thereafter, to create a globe of light with a 60-foot radius. When the wielder stops swinging, the radiance fades to a dim glow that persists for another minute before disappearing entirely. All sun blades are of good alignment, and any evil creature

...

Ask Sean to redo his breakdown of this for you. He did it once on his personal website, as a precursor to all these custom swords he made up, one for each god of the FR, complete with breakdowns.

I think he put it up as +2, +1 variant Bane effect, +1 for the Shortsword thing, +1 for the daylight = +5 weapon. That was it, really. This is obviously a portage over, without the retasking/remodding it should have had. Also note, this is FAR more powerful in Pathfinder then in 3.5, because most negative energy critters and undead in 3.5 you cannot critical! IN Pathfinder, you can.

Seemed the concept of fixed cost add-ons for weapons didn't seem to strike WotC at that time, unless you were talking intelligent weapons.

==Aelryinth

[Sir Hexen Ineptus]

Freesword wrote:

Stuff...

Wow! Thank you!

[Tholas]

Déjà-vu

[Set]

This thread is also going on over at Giant in the Playground, and it's been mentioned that Expedition to Castle Ravenloft has a 'Sunsword' that's only a +1 short sword/bastard sword, and skips the other stuff, for a bargain basement 3000 gp. Since the +1 sword would cost 2000 gp by itself, that makes the short sword / bastard sword property just a +1000 gp enhancement and not a '+1 equivalent' property.

Even if it's canon, that might be underpriced. I do wish there were more weapon / armor properties that had a flat gold piece value, and didn't count as effective pluses (due to the insane scaling), but this is a pretty hot property to let go for a mere 1000 gp.