Table 3-1 (Character Advancement and Level-Dependent Bonuses) has a column titled "Ability Score" and under it "1st" at 4th level, "2nd" at 8th etc. On the same page it says:
Adding a level generally gives you new abilities, additional skill points to spend, more hit points, and possibly an ability score increase or additional feat (see Table 3–1).
And:
Second, apply any ability score increases due to gaining a level.
And that's it. I couldn't find anywhere how to deal with this ability score increase. By how much do ability scores increase in the game and how do one handle it? I know how to handle this in 4E and I think I remember how it worked in 3E, but that was a long time ago.
Another omission? Or have I overlooked something?
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+1 to one Ability score of the player's choice at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, 20th level.
I don't have the book in front of me and I can't find where it actually tells you what the bonus is in the d20pfsrd so it might be an omission unless it's somewhere else.
Thanks! Would be nice then to spell it out in the book. Also some other suggestions: to change the heading in the table from "Ability Score" to "Ability Score Increases" and to note that any feats gained are in addition to the bonus ones gained through class features.
Actually, the entire section on leveling up is quite confusing. Something that took a page in the 3.5 PH and was clearly explained, step by step, is now condensed into a couple of paragraphs, losing a lot of details and causing quite a few questions for new (and even returning) players. I bet that most players coming to Pathfinder from 4E will automatically increase two ability scores by 1 each at level 4 (I saw one planning to do that today, that's how the entire issue surfaced) :) Is there a chance for a slightly expanded section in a future reprint?
Creative Director
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Actually, the entire section on leveling up is quite confusing. Something that took a page in the 3.5 PH and was clearly explained, step by step, is now condensed into a couple of paragraphs, losing a lot of details and causing quite a few questions for new (and even returning) players. I bet that most players coming to Pathfinder from 4E will automatically increase two ability scores by 1 each at level 4 (I saw one planning to do that today, that's how the entire issue surfaced) :) Is there a chance for a slightly expanded section in a future reprint?
That would indeed have been a good addition to the book, and I agree that the lack of something like this in the Pathfinder PRG is unfortunate. It's not something we'd be adding to a reprint though, since that'd mean removing an equal amount of text from the book and I'm not sure what we'd remove to make room for even a one page addition. Nevermind the fact that extensive changes to a book like this fall more into the category of revision than reprint—simply put, doing something like this is beyond the scope of a simple reprint.
That would indeed have been a good addition to the book, and I agree that the lack of something like this in the Pathfinder PRG is unfortunate. It's not something we'd be adding to a reprint though, since that'd mean removing an equal amount of text from the book and I'm not sure what we'd remove to make room for even a one page addition. Nevermind the fact that extensive changes to a book like this fall more into the category of revision than reprint—simply put, doing something like this is beyond the scope of a simple reprint.
Thanks for the reply, James. Oh well, I do hope we'll see a "second edition" some day :) While I know it seems like I'm complaining a lot on my threads, I'm just a pedant who happens to really love the game and the overall job you did. I guess that in the meantime a one line clarification on ability increase in an errata ("add 1 point to any one ability score") and changing the table column header from "Ability Score" (which suggests you get a new ability score altogether) to "Ability Score Increases" would suffice, and should be doable I hope :)
That would indeed have been a good addition to the book, and I agree that the lack of something like this in the Pathfinder PRG is unfortunate. It's not something we'd be adding to a reprint though, since that'd mean removing an equal amount of text from the book and I'm not sure what we'd remove to make room for even a one page addition.
Two words: web enhancement.
That would indeed have been a good addition to the book, and I agree that the lack of something like this in the Pathfinder PRG is unfortunate. It's not something we'd be adding to a reprint though, since that'd mean removing an equal amount of text from the book and I'm not sure what we'd remove to make room for even a one page addition.Two words: web enhancement.
Great idea! :)
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I lost some time looking for this recently, and I finally looked it up in my 3.5 PHB. What might be clearer without using any extra space is to put "+1" in the table instead of "1st", "2nd", etc. In that case you wouldn't even need to change the header. Then you could replace "Second, apply any ability score increases due to gaining a level." with "Add one point to any one ability score every fourth level." (The replacement sentence is shorter and more to the point.)
I lost some time looking for this recently, and I finally looked it up in my 3.5 PHB. What might be clearer without using any extra space is to put "+1" in the table instead of "1st", "2nd", etc. In that case you wouldn't even need to change the header. Then you could replace "Second, apply any ability score increases due to gaining a level." with "Add one point to any one ability score every fourth level." (The replacement sentence is shorter and more to the point.)
I like your solution :)
James, are we going to see this clarified by a sentence or two in the 3rd printing of the book?
Also would be good to note under the Generating a Character (page 14) section that you get a +1 hp or +1 skill rank for favored class when generating your character. Currently it's not too clear you get it already at level 1.
Table 3-1 (Character Advancement and Level-Dependent Bonuses) has a column titled "Ability Score" and under it "1st" at 4th level, "2nd" at 8th etc. On the same page it says:
Adding a level generally gives you new abilities, additional skill points to spend, more hit points, and possibly an ability score increase or additional feat (see Table 3–1).And:
Second, apply any ability score increases due to gaining a level.And that's it. I couldn't find anywhere how to deal with this ability score increase. By how much do ability scores increase in the game and how do one handle it? I know how to handle this in 4E and I think I remember how it worked in 3E, but that was a long time ago.
Another omission? Or have I overlooked something?
This is one of several small niggling bits of the PFRPG character generation chapter that I would pick at. PFRPG, on a very small number of issues, seems to assume that you're migrating from 3.x rules. It's very clear in the 3.x rules that every 4th level means +1 to a stat of your choice.
The chargen of PFRPG could really use some love, and I'll ping in and second or third the idea of a web enhancement.
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This is one of several small niggling bits of the PFRPG character generation chapter that I would pick at. PFRPG, on a very small number of issues, seems to assume that you're migrating from 3.x rules. It's very clear in the 3.x rules that every 4th level means +1 to a stat of your choice.
The chargen of PFRPG could really use some love, and I'll ping in and second or third the idea of a web enhancement.
It's the same impression I had, that it kinda assumes you're coming from 3.x. Not so bad for me, since I was, in a way, but I also play 4th and it gets confusing at times. There's several parts in the book where you can't really find a piece of information you're looking for but that you know should be there. Perhaps it is and I just didn't find it.
But it does seem as though the intense familiarity the authors (and playtesters!!) obviously had with 3.x kind of made it hard for them to be entirely sure they were stating everything in the most "newbie-friendly" way. "Betriebsblindheit" we call that in German. I've not seen a single company where things like that don't occur. When you're working on something 8 hours a day, 5 days a week (and hobby companies usually have lots of overtime), it gets hard to see it from the outside.
[Ahmahd is given a Viking sword]
Ahmed Ibn Fahdlan: I cannot lift this.
Herger the Joyous: Grow stronger.
[Ahmahd is given a Viking sword]
Ahmed Ibn Fahdlan: I cannot lift this.
Herger the Joyous: Grow stronger.
It took me a minute to get that this was a 13th Warrior refrence. :)
@Kvantum
Way to take the joke and go full geek with it :)