I'm angling my Rogue towards the Shadowdancer prestige class, and gave my DM the heads up on my intentions the other night. Not only did I want to make sure that taking the prestige class is acceptable (it is), I also wanted to make sure he was aware of the implications of the Summon Shadow ability. We both really like the flavor of having a spooky shadow thing that can slide up from the floor and drain the strength of my foes (not to mention provide flanking), but there are some concerns.
First, as an incorporeal creature it can move through most obstactles. As long as there's some point less than 5' thick that isn't a force effect, it's in. This makes scouting anything less than the most secure dungeons much simpler. Sure, spells available by approximately the same level like Clairvoyance, Arcane Eye and Scrying can do much the same thing, but spells are limited (or expensive) resources. My pet Shadow is always available.
While it's true that the Shadow is not infalliable and would need to make Stealth checks occasionally while scouting, that leads to the second problem. Much of the gaming session would be taken up by me playing the Shadow, moving it through the place, attempting to avoid detection while gathering as much intel as possible. Meanwhile the rest of the characters (and more importantly, their players) are sitting around twiddling their thumbs.
Lastly, the Summon Shadow does have it's one major drawback in that if it's killed I take a negative level and am then denied access to a major part of my class for 30 days. While this is on par with how similar abilities like Familiars, Animal Companions and Special Mounts used to work, these repercussions to a companion's death have largely been removed in Pathfinder with this one exception.
We had briefly discussed setting range limits on how far away the Shadow can travel from me, even with the shortest range it could still always check the next room ahead, potentially slip in and STR-drain one or more baddies ahead of time, etc. I also offered a 'gentleman's agreement' to simply not try to abuse the abilities. That seems far too meta-gamey though, and the rest of the party isn't stupid. They'd ask (in character) that if I've got this cool dude with me who can float through walls, why did they just have to get ambushed?
So, thoughts? Is the Shadow more trouble than it's worth from a gameplay perspective? Are there alternate abilities that anyone can suggest that would be shadow-themed but not so seemingly abuse-able? Should the comparatively-heavy penalty for the Shadow being dismissed/destroyed exist?
stuff
I'd say that every odd level after you gain summon shadow, you should treat your shadow as being more powerful
so lvl 3 summon shadow is as written
lvl 5- if the shadow is destroyed, gain 1 negative lvl until you can summon another shadow, in addition when you have a shadow summoned your shadow jump's range is increased by 50 ft/day
lvl 7- if shadow is destroyed, you may relinquish your ability to shadow jump for a week instead of gaining the negative level, in addition you only lose shadows for a week, or until lvl up
lvl 9- at lvl 9, two shadows may be summoned/day, if both are destroyed within the same battle you gain the negative level for a week and the save increases to 20
lvl 10- you have bonded perfectly with your shadows and no longer suffer a negative level when they are destroyed, you also have the option of fusing with them 1/week in battle which grants the ability to cast darkness at will, grants you an extra 2d6 damage/shadow and attacks against you have a 20% chance of missing/shadow
my 2 CP
The shadow is a big part of your offense so I would suggest any ability that replaces it be an offensive power. A simple answer could be SA progression at 1/3 levels instead of 1/2 of the rogue.
To be honest, I would suggest you use it for at least a session or two and see how it works. Try not to hog the spotlight too much though. My rogue does a ton of scouting for our group, I don't see it being any different. Generally speaking folks like recon.
I also wouldn't worry about the shadow being able to get through everything. Druids get earth glide at 6th level so they can do a ton of scouting without burning resources also. There are also plenty of spells, etc also.
Mostly... just try it. I've seen a lot of people write stuff off lately because it doesn't look good at first glance.
Note that shadows can't talk (in 3.5, at least), so they don't make really good scouts. I guess you could come up with some kind of sign language, though.
Maybe you could replace the shadow companion with a shadow mastiff companion.
Note that shadows can't talk (in 3.5, at least), so they don't make really good scouts. I guess you could come up with some kind of sign language, though.
Maybe you could replace the shadow companion with a shadow mastiff companion.
Shadows can't, but the Shadow companions are able to "communicate intelligibly with the shadowdancer" in both 3.5 and Pathfinder.
Oops. Carry on...
The shadow is a big part of your offense so I would suggest any ability that replaces it be an offensive power. A simple answer could be SA progression at 1/3 levels instead of 1/2 of the rogue.
To be honest, I would suggest you use it for at least a session or two and see how it works. Try not to hog the spotlight too much though. My rogue does a ton of scouting for our group, I don't see it being any different. Generally speaking folks like recon.
I also wouldn't worry about the shadow being able to get through everything. Druids get earth glide at 6th level so they can do a ton of scouting without burning resources also. There are also plenty of spells, etc also.
Mostly... just try it. I've seen a lot of people write stuff off lately because it doesn't look good at first glance.
Very true, and we're likely going to do just that. I think the main concern I have is the 30-day penalty. The negative level is easy enough to remove since we'll have at least one if not two characters capable of casting Restoration in the party by then.
It's the 30-day penalty that gets me worried. We've been playing Pathfinder for about 2 months now, and perhaps 15 in-game days have past. Now I do know we are coming up to some downtime, and that downtime will be available through much of the campaign. At the same time however I don't know that I want to go 2-3 months of real time without getting to use one of my super-cool abilities. I'm still not sure why this went unchanged. Sure, Paizo removed the XP penalty. Familiars lost that and the year-and-a-day replacement restriction. Why'd the Shadow keep it's time limit?
The one thing that gets me is this: Why is the Shadowdancer the only thing in Pathfinder which can suffer XP / level loss? This makes no sense, considering that Pathfinder strives to ensure everyone, at all times, remains the same level.
I can see a temporary negative level perhaps (a month, maybe?) but a permanent level loss seems a bit much.
The one thing that gets me is this: Why is the Shadowdancer the only thing in Pathfinder which can suffer XP / level loss? This makes no sense, considering that Pathfinder strives to ensure everyone, at all times, remains the same level.
I can see a temporary negative level perhaps (a month, maybe?) but a permanent level loss seems a bit much.
Holy zombie thread, Batman... :)
The "permanent" negative level just means that it doesn't go away on its own. A single casting of Restoration (4th level Cleric/Paladin spell) will remove that penalty. I wouldn't worry about that much by the time a Shadowdancer can get a Shadow Companion. As long as you've got a Cleric in the party, you'll only be taking the penalties for a day or two.
Like I said (over a year ago, yikes), the worst part is the 30-day loss of a major class feature. Depending on the campaign and the timing, 30 in-game days might be handwaved as downtime, or they might take months to get through.
As it turns out, my Rogue in question was killed a few levels shy of taking her first level in Shadowdancer. Ironically, she was killed by (and subsequently arose as)... you guessed it, a Shadow.
I made a shadow knight variant. This includes having your shadow summoned into a set of armor instead of out and about. However I would go with the 1/3 sneak attack progression.