Of course...he could always come back in *your* version of Golarion, but the impression I got was that he was gone gone, as I would imagine his clerics would have found him at some point...though he was supposed to be immortal *head scratch*. Anyways...
So why punish them?Because they've all been very naugty!Aroden's clerics don't get spells.
Because I'm all about behaving. I don't care whether you cry when Bambi's mother dies in the film, but you better eat all your spinach.
he still complains for the fact that they joined my clergy and I am the one giving them their power... excepto the evil ones... I think they where the ones who began the corruption of Cheliax while we fighted in the Worldwound...So why punish them?Because they've all been very naugty!Aroden's clerics don't get spells.
Let me present to you Iomedae, Goddess of Naughty.
Let me present to you Iomedae, Goddess of Naughty.he still complains for the fact that they joined my clergy and I am the one giving them their power... excepto the evil ones... I think they where the ones who began the corruption of Cheliax while we fighted in the Worldwound...So why punish them?Because they've all been very naugty!Aroden's clerics don't get spells.
Oh I know. It's a disgrace.
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I am flattered, but so much has happened. It would take a miniseries at least.
If you really want to get some viewers though, Iomedae and I can get into a mudpit. Lawful good epicness at its greatest! *whispering to the Camera* And can someone explain why Iomedae is aligned with the Chelish?
*cof cof* ebcause there is no symbol for aligned to heaven or Lastwall ot Mendev? and I was born and raised inthe noble chelish lands before they falled to despair and Asmodeus... of coruse one of my plans is to bring them back to the fold, with tender and care...
do not believe my old ex-goddess about my intimidatign people, everyone is free to join, the rest don't do evil and you wont bring my wrath upon you
dear Arazni, how much have you changed since the times I served under your oath!
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yeah... I know you two would band as always... Arazni, Aroden... I may be younger... but I have done well, so stop spreading your lies about me... gee one would tink your mentors and parents would turn their backs on you like that... and simply die when its their time, be mourned and be given justice to their murderers... but no... they need to keep complain abaout everything you do and not do... tsk tsk tks
yeah... I know you two would band as always... Arazni, Aroden... I may be younger... but I have done well, so stop spreading your lies about me... gee one would tink your mentors and parents would turn their backs on you like that... and simply die when its their time, be mourned and be given justice to their murderers... but no... they need to keep complain abaout everything you do and not do... tsk tsk tks
Oh darling, no one's said you haven't done well. We can always do better, though, yes? If it feels like we're criticizing you, its because we want you to do more than you've been doing. The Worldwound is an excellent start; just start expanding a bit!
*cof cof* ebcause there is no symbol for aligned to heaven or Lastwall ot Mendev?
No, that's not it.
I think you're on Asmo's payroll.
Yeah, more likely. Those LG types are usually the worst. All that talk about goodness is a façade, a thin cover on a deep, deep well of depravity.
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yeah... I know you two would band as always... Arazni, Aroden... I may be younger... but I have done well, so stop spreading your lies about me... gee one would tink your mentors and parents would turn their backs on you like that... and simply die when its their time, be mourned and be given justice to their murderers... but no... they need to keep complain abaout everything you do and not do... tsk tsk tksOh darling, no one's said you haven't done well. We can always do better, though, yes? If it feels like we're criticizing you, its because we want you to do more than you've been doing. The Worldwound is an excellent start; just start expanding a bit!
that is the idea, to begin changing Cheliax from the inside... and that poor land affected by their lack of trust in the gods... i know i know there is too much work, and we have a bit of a few hands to extend in the multiverse... still... we are working on that...
that is why my banner... Cheliax first, whatever credulous and crazy clowns say
I've probably just overlooked the answer to this somewhere, so if someone could just point me to the relevant reference --
Aroden is dead; fine.
We don't know how it happened; fine.
Since Aroden's death, prophecy doesn't work. Stop.
What does that mean in the short term? Given enough time, maybe the metaverse will recover and prophecy will be back on track. But right now, today, 4709 AR, what does it mean? How are Harrow decks and ordinary Divination spells affected? (Not spells like Detect Whatever, but things like Augury, Commune, etc.)
credulous and crazy clowns
Credulous? You can't mean me, then, because I'm everything but. Mulder usually tells me to get a grip, that not everything is out to get me.
We're really not so different, though: We both want to restore things:
You want to restore Cheliax to its pre-diabolic ways.
I want to restore Everything to its pre-multiverse ways. All this denied potential is a real crime against Liberty.
Since Aroden's death, prophecy doesn't work. Stop.What does that mean in the short term? Given enough time, maybe the metaverse will recover and prophecy will be back on track. But right now, today, 4709 AR, what does it mean? How are Harrow decks and ordinary Divination spells affected? (Not spells like Detect Whatever, but things like Augury, Commune, etc.)
They work exactly as the rules say.
I think that was the biggest metagame reason behind this: As diviniations in D&D are often not 100% certain, and prophecy should never be inevitable, they explained why exactly that stuff didn't work perfectly.
Since Aroden's death, prophecy doesn't work. Stop.What does that mean in the short term? Given enough time, maybe the metaverse will recover and prophecy will be back on track. But right now, today, 4709 AR, what does it mean? How are Harrow decks and ordinary Divination spells affected? (Not spells like Detect Whatever, but things like Augury, Commune, etc.)
They work exactly as the rules say.
I think that was the biggest metagame reason behind this: As diviniations in D&D are often not 100% certain, and prophecy should never be inevitable, they explained why exactly that stuff didn't work perfectly.
Exactly. It goes all the way through Golarion, Pathfinder, even Paizo. I mean, Paizo claims I'm stone dead forever, when I'm obviously not. That shows the fundamental nature of this situation!
Mulder usually tells me to get a grip, that not everything is out to get me.
Don't believe him, his gun is right there in his jacket, waiting for you to lower your guard.
Exactly. It goes all the way through Golarion, Pathfinder, even Paizo. I mean, Paizo claims I'm stone dead forever, when I'm obviously not. That shows the fundamental nature of this situation!
Since Aroden's death, prophecy doesn't work. Stop.What does that mean in the short term? Given enough time, maybe the metaverse will recover and prophecy will be back on track. But right now, today, 4709 AR, what does it mean? How are Harrow decks and ordinary Divination spells affected? (Not spells like Detect Whatever, but things like Augury, Commune, etc.)
They work exactly as the rules say.
I think that was the biggest metagame reason behind this: As diviniations in D&D are often not 100% certain, and prophecy should never be inevitable, they explained why exactly that stuff didn't work perfectly.
Even gods can be resurrected! You and I are superliving proof of that.
Even gods can be resurrected! You and I are superliving proof of that.
You smell funny, though. Superliving might be overdoing it.
In fact, it might be the opposite.
No pulse, and all.
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In my games Prophecy is a vast cosmic machine. You can't have prophecies about the too-far future, you have to get closer. But the longer that machine chugs onward, the more set prophecies become. So, as God of Prophecy, Aroden could see them earliest and best, maybe even tweak them when they had wiggle-room. He didn't create prophecies, just got a heads-up on them long before they were set, and could then nudge them in a direction before too many details become set.
And of course, he could reveal the prophecies he saw to his allies and worshipers.
Then,he was coming back. A new age of peace and happiness was on the way. He'd let that be seen early and often, because there was no reason not to spread the good news. Priests, gods, devils, they all knew.
But then, before his arrival and before any other force in the universe noticed - gods of death and mortal seers included - Aroden saw the eventual price of his return. He saw a terrible prophecy, and it was set. No wiggle room, no other options. The cosmic machine had too much force for Aroden to nudge this one.
The only way out? Break the machine. Aroden died as an act of divine will, pitting his full divine power against *himself*, to break one prophecy, and thus destroy all others. Even a greater god can't break powerful prophecy without consequences, but the cosmic machine couldn't stop him from destroying himself.
The machine shatters. The world bucks, clerics go mad, and gods stare in shock and horror. The force of prophecy - all prophecy - is reset to zero. No one knows what's coming now. And it'll be centuries, if not eons, before the future gains enough rigidity, before the cosmic machine gains enough momentum, for seers to see the future once more.
Aroden died to save us from the future, and no one, god, demon or angel, will ever know why or how.
I was thinking of something similar for my explanation to my players. I love this answer and you worded way better than I would have. I'm going to be borrowing this and expanding upon it.
My completely basesless speculation on the prophecy thing is that time travel was involved in either Aroden's failure to predict his own death or his decision to permit it.
Basically, prophecy works fine as long as time marches forward and effect follows cause. Time travel screws that up; the first time history is folded back on itself, the constant downstream flow of time is no longer certain. The future is predicated on the past and present, but now it's possible to change the past.
Maybe Aroden didn't see his death coming because it came at him "from behind" as it were; he had a bright future until someone travelled back and set things in motion to overwrite it.
Or maybe he did see it coming and worked out that his death would prevent temporal anomalies from running increasingly wild.
I was thinking of something similar for my explanation to my players. I love this answer and you worded way better than I would have. I'm going to be borrowing...
Please do. And once you do, please share!
{looks up from Bat Boy story in Weekly World News} Bah. I say he saw his death coming and manipulated events to stop it. Then he has Gushie check the prophecies... oops, now he still dies, but even sooner. Well, he'll fix that... [umpteen divine schemes later] whew! now he's safe. But Al says "Oops, its even worse!" Aroden thinks "But I'm the Grand Poobah of Prophecy?!"... [meddle, meddle, meddle] Augh, worse!... [repeat ad nauseum until he checkmates himself].
Hmmm, did anyone recover Aroden's corpse? A major deity would be major snackage for Abbadon's daemons.
Aroden's working in the salt mines beneath Castle Waldorf.
(But I love Dungeon Grrl's 'machine of prophecy' bit. Very cool!)
Oh hey! Set! There you are!
You can stop hiding on Earth now. All the other System Lords are dead.
I was thinking of something similar for my explanation to my players. I love this answer and you worded way better than I would have. I'm going to be borrowing...
There you are, honey! I was loo... oh, sorry, I thought that said "Kae's Lass"
I'm not really dead. My repeat God Application just wasn't filed. I gave it to my secretary, and she forgot it, because she was yapping about "goodness must prevail over evil" or something equally empty-headed, and now I'll have to wait a couple of centuries until I can get my status back.
My old secretary was better, too bad she's all corpsified now.
