Crafting a Masterwork Craft Ruleset
Disclaimer: This set of houserules remains an ABSTRACTION of a crafting and profession system; it does not necessarily reflect how it works in real life, nor how it used to work at any given era of history. It is only an attempt to create a system that is both simple, intuitive and mechanically sound in the context of a role-plying game.
So here I am, forever struggling in my quest to find a suitable system that would:
- Consolidate the Craft, Profession, and Perform skills under a single mechanics to calculate an income.
- Would not advantage one skill over the other and thus avoiding superior or sub-par choices.
- would not require a lot of investment in resources (both tangible and intangible) for the skill to be used correctly.
- Be versatile enough to give different answer to different questions (whether the intention is to know how much in a given time or how long for a given price).
But I sense that the grail is drawing near… Here’s the newest version of the system, now based on the creation time rather than the value of the item.
Throughout this document, you’ll notice that things are listed in sets of 3. Most of this just happened to fit in this way, and the rest of the mechanics was refitted to work on a base 3 as a design constant. I tried not to hammer things into this 3-based mould when they clearly didn’t belong there. For example, it would have been convenient to have three seasons per years, but I’m not going to go that far. For the most parts of it, all th pieces happened to fit very nicely together.
THE UNIFIED INCOME MECHANICS
There are three social classes among the common people: the peasants (or townfolk), the experts and the specialists.
Peasants cater for the daily necessities of life and include trades such as farmer and potter. These trades are easy to perform but generate low income. Even a minor mishap or misfortune can become a huge set-back. A peasant trade has an income DC of 10
Experts cater for a specialized clientele and include trades such as innkeeper or weaponsmith. These trades are trickier to perform but generate a much better income for those who have the proper skills. An expert’s trade has an income DC of 15.
Specialists cater for the elite and aristocracy, and are themselves among the richer free citizen of common origin. Specialist trades include jeweller and craftsman capable of masterworkmanship. These trades can be very lucrative but demand a high level of expertise. A specialist trade as an income DC of 20.
A peasant earns a base salary of 1 gp per week
An expert earns a base salary of 5 gp per week
A specialist earns a base salary of 25 gp per week.
These salaries illustrate the net profit that one has generated in a week; all expenses related to the trade have already been accounted for (including raw materials, overhead costs, taxes etc). However, it does not cover the daily expenses such as food, lodging, clothing etc. The savings generated by a household over a whole year will be less than the sum of the weekly income for the year. PCs must subtract their monthly upkeep costs (if any) from this income.
Among each of these classes, there are three levels of proficiency: the apprentice, the journeyman and the master.
An apprentice has either no rank in the proper skill, or not enough ranks to succeed the appropriate income DC by taking 10. An apprentice of a peasant trade is basically an unqualified labourer. Most PCs will exceed the status of apprentice by level 1.
A journeyman is able to live off his trade and succeed the income DC by taking 10. Journeymen make the bulk of the working force. Most trade-oriented PCs should qualify for this level of mastery as early as level 1.
A master is able to exceed the income DC of its trade by 5 with ease (i.e. by taking 10). Masters are usually the ones running the show. Masters of a specialist trade accumulate enough wealth to live in levels of luxury comparable to those of aristocrats, and may serve as employers for the PCs.
An apprentice divides its base salary by 10.
A journeyman receives no modifier on its base salary
A master triples its base salary.
So far, these salaries represent a general abstraction of the income that one can generate over a certain period of time, regardless whether the Craft, Profession or Perform skill was used. When a character wishes to use any of those skills to generate a weekly income, he or she must roll an appropriate skill check and compare the result on the following chart. Note that the modifiers appearing on the following chart REPLACE the modifiers for the apprentice and master listed above. A master does not triple its already tripled base salary when his roll exceeds the income DC by 5 or more. The modifiers listed above already take the income rolls into account.
Failure by 5 or more | The character looses an amount of gold pieces equal to its base salary for the appropriate trade class.
Failure by less than 5 | The character breaks even. No income is collected for this check.
Success by less than 2 | The character earns the base salary for its appropriate trade class.
Success by 2 or more | The character earns 1.5 times the base salary for its appropriate trade class.
Success by 5 or more | The character earns 3 times the base salary for its appropriate trade class.
Success by 10 or more | The character earns 10 times the base salary for its appropriate trade class
Each trade skill (the Craft, Profession and Perform skill) possesses its own interpretation of the rules and involves a skill check. This skill check will then determine the unknown factor requested by the player, such as how long will it takes, how much will be produced or how good was the quality.
MASTERS AND APPRENTICES
During the middle ages, a blacksmith running a forge all on his own was probably as frequent as a modern physician performing surgery without assistants. Cooperation is the key to civilization, and this has been observed in any layers of our society for as long as we care to look back. As a fantasy setting, we should allow the barbarian blacksmith to forge his starmetal sword all by himself in a raging blizzard; if only for the cool factor. But that’s probably not how your typical craftsman NPC works…
Regardless of what trade the character performs, a typical income roll (or lack thereof should the character take 10) assumes the presence of at least two assistants. These assistants do not have to know much. Most of them are apprentices or unqualified labourers, and their pay is so low that it does not have a real impact on the artisan’s final income.
While the blacksmith may have two apprentices to work with him as strikers, the minstrels may travel as a trio and the baker may simply be working with his wife and his elder daughter. Therefore, most households will gather only one source of income.
A character working without assistants suffer from a -2 penalty from unfavourable circumstances. Should the character hire journeymen instead of apprentices, his work would only progress faster (or better). Journeymen confer the character a +2 circumstance bonus on his income check. Masters often do so, as this bonus automatically multiply their (already good) salary by 1.5 and perhaps even by 3, which more than covers for the two extra salaries that they must deduct from their own pay.
THE PROFESSION SKILL
Of all three trade-related skills, the profession skill is the most straightforward. More often then not, it will suffice to know how much one has made over the week, even if this represents an average over a longer period of time. Generally speaking, the profession skill answers to the question “how much profit did I turn over a certain cycle”. Some professions – like the baker – will have very short production cycles, while others – like the winemaker – may produce only one batch a year. Some other professions – like the farmer – may know high production seasons followed by dead periods where the next stage is being prepared. Finally, some professions – like the sailor – receive fixed salaries that are independent from their skills level, that is, until they fail often enough to be fired or are promoted into higher positions. Basically, unlike the Craft skill that is about the rate at which items are created, the Profession skill determines the quantity and the quality of a product or service. The profession skill is about being better rather than being faster.
The difference between the Profession and the Craft skill goes beyond the simplistic separation of “if there’s a final product, it’s a craft and if it’s a service, it’s a profession”. The baker, the brewer and the farmer all produce a physical product: bread, ale and potatoes. However, these goods will bake, ferment and grow at their own pace; the speed at which a batch can be produced does not increase significantly with their maker’s skill. However, the professional’s skills will have an impact on the product’s quality and/or productivity.
HIRED HANDS
Hired hands are labourers with a certain level of required skills, such as a sailor or a stable-hand. These people receive a salary from their employer based on the minimum of what they should be capable of doing, but not necessarily on what they are actually capable of. Therefore, these professionals must demonstrate an acceptable level of skill before being hired (must succeed the profession’s income DC by taking 10) but any increase in their respective skill has not immediate effect on their weekly pay. Most of these professions detain opportunities for advancement; the sailor could be promoted to first-mate for example, and the stable-hand could become the stable manager. These positions recognise higher skill levels and thus lead to better salaries. But once again, any increase in the appropriate skill would only unlock the possibility of a further promotion (to captain of a ship or royal esquire of the king’s stables for example), if the professional is lucky enough to earn recognition for its talent.Most hired hands positions are taken from the expert class and have an income DC of 15 and receive the basic 5 gp per week. The first advancement is given to those who can reliably succeed a DC 17 (even under unfavourable circumstances), which increases their salary to 7.5 gp per week. If they are skilled enough to succeed an income DC of 20 under any circumstances, they might be promoted to the next stage and earn a full 15 gp per week. At this point, our sailor and stable-hand may simply turn down the offer, start their own specialist trade and aim for the base salary of 25 gp per month as a privateer captain or master rancher, but that would require a significant initial investment and a certain ambition that they may not have.
Hired hands of peasant trades are basically unqualified labourers and are paid pittance in exchange for food and lodging (usually 1 sp per week). There are few hired hands among the specialist trades. Most of them are governmental envoys, ambassadors and diplomats, but there are the few royal chamberlains, not to mention higher military ranks among the soldiers of common descent. Specialists hired hands are among the closest thing to aristocracy as any non-noble NPC will ever get.
THE BATCH PROCESS
Products produced in batch share some similarities with crafted items. Like crafted items, batch products imply raw materials and overhead costs, a production DC and a creation time. Unlike crafted items however, the initial creation costs are not necessarily proportional to the whole batch’s market value.
The higher the skill of the maker, the greater will be the value of the created batch for the same initial investment. Perhaps this higher value is represented by a greater volume, or a better quality for which the consumer is ready to pay more. Maybe the professional’s exemplary management simply leads to higher profit. Like most profession, the goal of the batch process is to turn as much value out of the tiniest investment as possible.
Many professions living of the batch process go to the point of “crafting” their own raw materials. After the harvest, the farmer will gather seeds (which should save on raw materials for buying seeds) and till the land (which should save time in the spring). Similarly, winemakers do not buy grapes, they grow their own crops. Barrels are not bought; they are produced during the winter when the season’s wine is aging etc.
Batch productions vary from relatively short (1 day) to relatively long (1 full year) intervals. Most of these professions start with a minimal investment and make it “grow” with each day passed. Short production cycles generate lower growth but more frequent turnouts, while long cycles potentially generate more growth but fewer paydays. In the end, all these professions average to the earnings based on the profession’s income DC, especially since stocks can take whole cycles to be exhausted.
Should a PC attempt to create a batch for his or her own use (as opposed to try to make profit out of it), follow these steps:
- Determine the “Craft DC” of the product (15 for typical ale).
- Determine the time window (see the Craft rules below) necessary to produce the batch (3 months for typical ale).
- Determine the projected quantity to be produced.
- Determine the market price for the projected quantity (2 sp per gallon for typical ale).
- Pay half the projected market price in raw materials
- Roll a skill check against the “Craft DC” and compare the result to the following table
Check is failed by 5 or more: | The whole batch is spoiled. You loose your initial investment.
Check is failed by less than 5 | Half the batch is spoiled. You end-up not saving any money.
Check is succeeded by less than 2: | You create the projected quantity at a reasonable quality
Check is succeeded by 2 or more | You create 150% of the projected quantity OR the product is slightly better than the typical variety.
Check is succeeded by 5 or more | You create 300% of the projected quantity OR the product is significantly better than the typical variety.
Check is succeeded by 10 or more | You create 300% of the projected quantity AND the product is significantly better than the typical variety.
THE CRAFT SKILL
In addition to providing an income, a craftsman may use the Craft skill to produce an item that does not result from a batch process (that is covered in the Profession rules above). In this case, the Craft skill answers the question “how long will it takes to create X?”. Unless the craftsman fails horribly, the creation costs are independent form the skill check and based solely on the item’s market price.
Unlike the creation costs (the raw materials and overhead costs involved in making the item), the time required to create an item is totally independent from its market value. Instead, the creation time required to create an item is selected from a “creation time windows” as follow:
3 hours (a simple trap)
3 days (20 arrows)
3 weeks (a martial weapon)
3 months (a masterwork weapon)
The categorization of an item in a specific window should represent an estimation of the time necessary for a capable yet conservative craftsman to produce the item. At the best of bests, the item shouldn’t be produced in less than the previous category “down” from it. For example the time necessary to produce a longsword should be calculated in weeks. At any case, it should definitively be less than 3 months and no less than 3 days. Among the choices offered here, 3 weeks sounds the most reasonable.
In this model, I assume that each week = 10 days and each month = 3 weeks. There are 12 months of equal length per year plus 4 holidays that do not count as part of any month (similar to how weekends are not included in our “5-to-7 workdays shipping time”). A fifth holiday happens every four year to fill the leap year’s extra day. This calendar is taken from the Forgotten Realms setting, but it suits my needs perfectly since 3 times 3-hours makes a 10-hours day (with an hour break), 3 times 3-days makes a 10-days week (with a day off at the end), 3 times 3-weeks makes a month, and 3 months make a seasons. This seemed to fit perfectly in my base-3 system…
Each time a character attempt to create an item, he or she must roll an appropriate skill check and compare the result on the following chart.
Failure by 5 or more | The item is ruined and all progress accumulated so far is lost. The craftsman may recuperate 1/2 the creation costs invested in for the item.
Failure by less than 5 | The item sees no significant progress from its last stage.
Success by less than 2 | The item is completed in the appropriate time window.
Success by 2 or more | The item is created in 2/3 of the appropriate time window.
Success by 5 or more | The item is created in 1/3 of the appropriate time window
Success by 10 or more | The item is created in the time window of the previous category (ex: an item normally created in 3 weeks is completed in 3 days).
Regardless of the nature of an item, there are always three components that constitute the final market price of an item: the raw materials use in the creation, the overhead cost of maintaining the enterprise and the labour of the people involved.
The raw materials include the material necessary to make the item itself (such as 4 lbs of iron for longsword), but also the resources spent on the making of the said item (such as the coals or timbers used to run to forge). The raw material also covers for costs associated with the wear and tear on the tools. Basically, everything the craftsman buys in order to make its item is considered as “raw material”.
Labour constitutes the input from the craftsman himself. This is where the craftsman makes his money. The higher the skill of a craftsman, the higher the ratio of an item’s price goes to its labour. This component of the market price also takes into account the energy that the craftsman has invested in order to sell the said item. The merchant’s cut, if any, is also calculated from the “labour” component.
The overhead costs cover the fees necessary to run the establishment, such as wood for heating, rent to the landlord or taxes to the local noble, guild membership, repairs and maintenance on the building and infrastructures of the trade etc. The overhead cost component on the final market price may carry costs from several sources, such as the cost associated with running the mines, with smelting and the refinery of the ore, with carrying the iron bars to the forge, with the repairs one the grinder’s waterwheel, with he caravan’s cost all the way down to the stall’s rental fees in the market place.
While we can allocate about 1/3 of the market price to each of these components, figuring the exact value of each component is not only impossible; it is irrelevant. When an item is created by a PC, the craftsman must pay half its market price in raw materials and overhead costs. While this abstraction shouldn’t be that reliable and precise, it is easy to use and to remember.
As far as the player is concerned, we don’t really need to know exactly how much iron was used, for how long the bellows have run and how much wear and tear the item has caused on the tools. The only thing that is important to remember is that these costs existed, and that they represent half the market price. I hesitated to go with cost = 1/3 of the item’s price (especially since I’ve been working in base 3 all along), but I decided to keep it in line the costs associated with magical item. Also, dividing the market price in two leaves me some room for a more definite portion of raw metal when this will become important, such as with special materials.
So this Craft system is less precise than Pathfinder RAW. In the end, knowing that the items would have been completed in 5.8333333 days (after many checks and much calculation) isn’t that helpful. As far as the game is concerned, there are no difference between 28 days and a month. Since the DM is going to round things up anyway, we might as well start with a system that gives round answers.
Most weapons and armours were created in three stages and as an alternate rule, each of these stages could receive its own skill check and progress.Forging
This stage requires a forge and involves transforming the raw iron bars into something workable. The basic shape is created in this stage. The better the smith at this stage, the easier the next stage will be. As a side note, weapons were NOT cast past the Bronze Age. This is a Hollywood myth use in many movies, but one that is grossly inaccurate.Grinding / Shaping
This stage finishes-up the shape of the item and gives sharpness to a blade. In many cultures including feudal Japan and medieval Europe, the master grinder is a different individual than the smith who forged the blade. Armours and other protective items are hammered into smooth shapes in this stage. Any polishing, coating or treatment also happens in this stage if applicable.Hilting / Assembly
The item is truly completed in this stage, where the different parts are welded, riveted, or somehow assembled together into a finished product. Again, “historical accuracy” demands that this stage is performed by yet another specialist, but could theatrically be performed by the same craftsman.Each of these stages worth a third of the item’s market value. Thus, an uncompleted item could be sold for the portions that have been completed.
With this alternate rule, each stage takes a third of the time window, which can be further separated in three “windows” of the preceding category. For example, a sword (a 3-weeks item) may be forged in 1 week, which equals 3 windows of 3 days. Should the skill check reveals that the first stage is completed in 2/3 of the time window, this would represent two 3-days periods.
CRAFTING MASTERWORK ITEMS
A masterwork item is an item of superior quality, commanding a much higher market price and requiring a more skilful creator. A masterwork item as an additional value added to the base item’s price. As indicated on the table below:Weapons: +300 gp
Armours: +150 gp
Musical Instruments: +100 gp
Tools and common items: +50 gp
“just about anything else”: +50 gp
As an alternate rule, the masterwork component could change in relation of the size and complexity of the item. It is curious that a knife and a two-handed sword be just as expensive to “improve” to masterwork quality.Thus, light weapons and armours receive a price adjustment of 50% when it comes to the masterwork component, while heavy armours and two-handed weapons are adjusted by 150% of the masterwork price. The masterwork price for 1-handed weapons and medium armours remains unaffected.
Similarly, a 50 gp masterwork set of tool would do for a trade DC 10, but for each income DC increment of 5, add 50 gp to the masterwork component. Thus, masterwork tools allowing for an income or craft DC of 20 would cost 150 gp (which still isn’t much considering a master’s salary)
While the item achieves masterwork status principally by a greater investment in time and labour, there are some derived costs in raw materials and overhead as well. Therefore, the 50% cost associated with the creation of an item also applies to the masterwork component. Unlike the 3.x rules where an item had first to be created and then “upgraded” by the addition of the masterwork component, this ruleset considers a masterwork item as a single entity. However, this document will continue to refer to the additional cost associated with masterworkmanship as the “masterwork component”.
A masterwork item takes 3 times as long to create (using the next time window “higher-up”). The Craft DC is also increased to 20, thus enabling the craftsman to a much higher salary. Should the craftsman fail its check by less than 5, the item is still completed within the time window, but such an item does not benefit from any of the masterwork benefits. The craftsman can still continue to work on the item for another identical time window in the hope of a successful check result. As long as the item is not ruined by a failure of 5 or more, this could theatrically go on indefinitely. The item acquires the masterwork quality as soon as the appropriate DC 20 skill check result indicates a success.
Should the alternate rule of item creation in three stages be used, the masterwork component must be applied to each individual stage in order to create an item of masterwork quality.
TOOLS AND SHOP
In order to live from its trade, a craftsman must be equipped with the appropriate tools and/or installations. Tools and shop allow up to a certain Craft DC to be reached, but are inappropriate past this point. Similarly to how masterwork tools confer a bonus to the craftsman, inappropriate tools impose a -2 penalty on the Craft skill check.
These different tool DCs should command different prices, but I haven’t bend my mind around that yet. The alchemist’s lab (500 gp) should be a good starting point…
As an optional rule, the shop’s allowed DC could also limit the base salary of its user. Thus, a master weaponsmith working in a journeyman shop (allow for an income DC of 15) would calculate his salary on a base of 5 gp per week. He would get the most out of the shop, easily reaching check results allowing the base salary to be multiplied by 3 or even 10, but nowhere close to anything he would gain from a master shop (allowing an income DC of 20)
SPECIAL MATERIALS
A special material am I? Let’s see how ssspecial I can be!Whenever an item is crafted of a substance that isn’t typical for its kind, its material takes the mention of “special material”. Most special materials possess properties that benefits the wielder of the item in one way or another, hence their popularity amongst adventurers who need every advantage they can get. Other than their use in superior armours and weaponry, special materials are often used in ornamentation, jewellery and objects of art. Thus, silver and gold also receive the mention of special material, although their use is usually reserved to enhance the durability and/or appearance of mundane items (such as a golden chandelier or a silver spoon).
All special materials come with a price modifier that directly affects the value of the base item. However, special materials cost just as much to the craftsman than the supplement that is charged to the customer. In other words, a craftsman does not make any profit from the special material’s component of the item. When calculating the creation costs of an item, find the creation costs of the base item and add the special material’s cost modifier in full. Unless the item is also given the masterwork treatment, the Craft DCs, creation time and required tools are not affected by most special materials.
Note that certain “noble” special materials such as adamantine, darkwood, and mithral already confer masterwork benefits to their items. This is because ALL items made of those noble materials receive the masterwork treatment; only, the masterwork component’s price modifier is already included in the special material’s price modifier.
An item created out of a noble special material must receive the masterwork treatment: the base item’s market price increase by 300 gp (if a weapon) or 150 gp (if a protective item), the Craft DC increases to 20 and the creation time is tripled (using the next time window “higher-up”) as indicated above in Crafting Masterwork Items. To calculate the creation costs of such an item, divide the base item’s market price in half (including the masterwork component) and add the special material’s price modifier minus the masterwork component price modifier. For example, an adamantine longsword would have a market price of 3015 gp (15 gp + 3000 gp), and cost 2857.5 gp to create (1/2*(15 gp + 300 gp) + (3000 gp – 300 gp).
Only 1/3 of the special material’s price modifier represents the ore proper (or timber, or dragon hide etc). Therefore, a craftsman forging a adamantine longsword from the shattered fragments of another adamantine weapon would save 1000 gp (1/3 of 3000 gp) in raw materials.
I came with the concept that as far as the special material component is concerned, creation cost = 100% of market price in order to avoid situations where the profit that a craftsman should make from a very expensive item (should his cut be about half the item’s market value) OVERLY exceeds the average income that he should receive for his trade DC and skill check result.In the case of the adamantine longsword, the craftsman’s net profit would be 1507.5 gp if we applied the concept that creations costs = ½ the item’s market price. Compared to the 225 gp that his income roll gives him over the same DC and creation time window (3 months), these 1507.5 gp seem to be way out of line. By allowing the craftsman to make profit ONLY over the masterwork longsword part of the object, we bring the net profit much more in line with the income roll which is supposed to represent an average income (157.5 gp vs 225 gp).
That being said, a craftsman should be able to get profit over the whole object (including the special material component) with the acquisition of a feat. After all, spellcasters can already produce thousands of gold pieces over relatively short periods of time once they acquire item creation feats. The same principle could be applied to special material.
THE PERFORM SKILL
Of all three trade-related skills, the perform skill is the most likely to be used sporadically and punctually as opposed to using the weekly income roll. Of these three skills, the perform skill should also be the most random. In a medieval-fantasy world, performing in front of an audience is basically “begging with style”. Crowds are fickle beasts and the performer will only be successful if he or she senses the right mood or entertainment style. Wealthier crowds may be more profitable but are usually very capricious, and the frequency between such performances can be quite unreliable. Then there are the factors that one cannot control; while a light shower can be a blessing for our good farmer, uncooperative weather can literally rain on a performer’s parade…
Should a performer dedicate all its energy to its trade, he or she will most likely roll an income check and pocket his money, but in the entertainment business, the trade DC is not set by one’s occupation, but rather by one’s audience.
Like any trade, the vocation of performer knows three layers of social classes. Unlike most other profession however, the same performer can easily go from one category to another, often within the same day. As far as entertainment is concerned, the trade DC is not set by “what you do” but rather “for whom you do it”.
A trade DC of 10 represents a safe and sure way to gather some coins, but from a crowd that isn’t likely to pay much attention or be very rich. Playing in the streets or in a low quality tavern are good examples of DC 10 performances. Those barely able to succeed such a trade DC are essentially beggars.
A performance DC of 10 allows earnings in copper pieces. A performer can find a DC 10 crowd pretty much anywhere, at any moment of the day. During the performer’s “high seasons”, traffic allows up to 3 performances per pay. During the dead seasons, performer will find it hard to perform more than once per day.
A trade DC of 15 represent a more focused and willing audience, such as playing for a minor rural noble, in a popular inn after supper or in a town square on a day of festival. Patrons have more specific tastes and can get rowdy when their expectations are not met.
A performance DC of 15 allows earnings in silver pieces. A performer can usually find a DC 15 crowd once a day throughout the year, sometimes up to two times a day during holidays and festivals.
A trade DC of 20 represent a very whimsical yet wealthy (or large) audience. Performances for the upper aristocracy, for a funeral among the wealthy or in the most reputable inns are example of such a trade DC. Novice performers are recommended not to attempt those gigs, as failures are often shown to the doors… and not always in the nicest of ways!
A performance DC of 20 allows earnings in gold pieces. A performer can usually find a DC 20 crowd up to three times a week. As the performer gains in reputation, he or she may be invited to perform for such an audience more frequently.
To determine the amount of coins earned during a performance, roll a Perform check and compare the result to the following table:
Failure by 5 or more | The audience is outraged. The performer is lucky if only its self-esteem got hurt…
Failure by less than 5 | The audience is unimpressed. The performer receives only 1d3 coins of the appropriate type for the crowd, more out of pity than appreciation really.
Success by less than 2 | The audience is satisfied; people got what they expected. The performer earns 2d6 coins of the appropriate type for the crowd.
Success by 2 or more | The audience is impressed. A few more coins than the usual fills the performer’s hat. The performer earns 3d6 coins of the appropriate type for the crowd.
Success by 5 or more | The audience is astounded. Even poorer patrons are more generous than the usual. The performer earns 6d6 coins of the appropriate type for the crowd.
Success by 10 or more | Punctual uses of the profession skill do not reach this level. Success by 5 is the best that one can get from its audience, but the DM may take exceptional results in consideration (like reputation or invitations).
PEROFRMERS AND ASSISTANTS
Performers are a different kind of artisan: they rarely take apprentices. From time to time, a famous performer may take his new protégé under his wing, but that remains an exception rather than the norm. Yet, artists do gather together, usually in small coteries of performers of the same skill level. Minstrels often perform in trios, actors travel in theatre troupes, even jugglers and acrobats rehearse their numbers as an ensemble.
As it is the case for other professionals and craftsmen, performers do better when working together. A performer working in solo suffers from a -2 circumstance penalty, while a performer “assisted” by at least two other artists do not get this penalty. As with journeymen assistants, performers able to produce a DC 15 check with ease (by taking 10) confer a +2 circumstance bonus to the Perform check.
Most performers either perform in solo (at -2 penalty) or in troupes of able artists (at +2 bonus). When doing do so, each performer rolls individually and only the higher result is considered (getting the +2 bonus) to determine the earnings. The performers then split their loot in three (or whatever other split they previously agreed on) and move-on to the next performance. Cooperative performance does not only insures a higher check result, it generates a much reliable source of income than solo performances which are more risky but may produce more profit.
Sorry for the long read, hope it was good at least.
I am welcoming any suggestions, critical analysis and personal opinions. I am also welcoming any ideas on how this system could be extended to crafting magical items.
thanks in advance
'findel
This looks sound, and far more usable than anything else to date.
There should be some means to elaborate the lesser professions to higher levels. The village potter is a different creature than the guy who makes teapots for the empress. Ditto the king's baker, and all the other lesser trades that could conceivably get "By Appointment to the King."
Part of this can be likely done by increasing quality and by use of special materials, but there should be some note of how this is accomplished.
The special materials that are always masterwork.... How long does it take to make a Darkwood club or quarterstaff? Isn't it basically just breaking a limb off a magical tree?
As a small note, the business with Hollywood and casting weapons applies to blades, not other popular weapons. I have a 15th century German light mace and it is most definitely cast, not forged. I also obtained a partisan hook at the same time that was definitely cast, so it can even apply to bladed weapons of the cruder types.
This looks sound, and far more usable than anything else to date.
Thanks, I'm working on a version that reads a bit more like a RPG skill description and less like a badly written encyclopedia.
I'll google-doc it whenever I finish it.
There should be some means to elaborate the lesser professions to higher levels. The village potter is a different creature than the guy who makes teapots for the empress. Ditto the king's baker, and all the other lesser trades that could conceivably get "By Appointment to the King."
True, once an artisan can master his craft (i.e. succeed his trade check by 5 or more) he could "improve" his social class by one step, and make all the way to "king's baker in chief". I'll work on that...
Part of this can be likely done by increasing quality and by use of special materials, but there should be some note of how this is accomplished.
Masterwork bread? Special baking Materials? Why not!
The special materials that are always masterwork.... How long does it take to make a Darkwood club or quarterstaff? Isn't it basically just breaking a limb off a magical tree?
unless this changed in Pathfinder, alchemical silver and cold iron do not automatically confer masterwork benefits.
As for Darkwood, I was just looking at it. Seems that you can get masterwork benefits (by making it out of Darkwook) for a lot less than the normal masterwork version. Strange...
Darkwood and dragonhide are a bit obscure in my mind to tell you the truth. I'd say that crafting a club or a quarterstaff takes a bit more processing than breaking a branch and swing with the heavier end. In order to make a proper staff, the wood needs to cure. Varnishes and sealants may be required for the sap to petrify and give the club enough hardness to withstand the constant beating. I should do more research for that as well
As a small note, the business with Hollywood and casting weapons applies to blades, not other popular weapons. I have a 15th century German light mace and it is most definitely cast, not forged. I also obtained a partisan hook at the same time that was definitely cast, so it can even apply to bladed weapons of the cruder types.
I must admit that my sources for this were unverified. I'll do a bit of (deeper) research on that, but casting makes sense for many objects, including many weapons.
'findel
Looks good. Adds a little complexity, but I don't think it's possible to get that level accuracy without it. It should be workable in actual play.
Actually, I would argue that the whole thing is simple. Only, the writing is very bad in the way that the USEFUL information is hard to find.
As a far as quality of a batch product, it only means to justifies the fact that a skillful brewer may end-up richer than another. But I think your are on a right track to apply the masterwork concept to mundane items as well...
Only other recommendation I could make is get the wording a bit more concise.
Yes, that is on the "to do" list. What you guys are reading is the first stage of a work in progress.
I won't get into a discussion about whether wineries would buy barrels from the local cooperage vs having a cooper on staff. It's really irrelevant unless you want to turn the game into Ledgers and Actuaries.
again, it was only a flavorful attempt to point out that winemakers are not sitting on their ass during the low season, and that the maker's weekly salary represents an average income over a longer period (in the case of a winemaker, it probably takes generations to accumulate the proper stock and come to a stable income).
Oh, and China used cast swords as a fast and inexpensive way...
Yeah, I'm starting to regret that comment. One should trust internet facts more than hollywoods'...
thanks all for the input!
A question: What do you do with the income of people who mix trades and professions, or professions and performance? For example, the farmer's wife who knits during the winter, or the musician who works as a carpenter in the off season.
Similarly, what do you do about off seasons and seasonal trades? Also, what of guildhalls in large cities?
There should also be some note about wartime economies. While blacksmiths should usually expect a steady trade, if a war breaks out, one expects that anyone who knows their way around a forge will command a premium price, if just for the overtime.
Similarly, farming is not a guaranteed game: Some years you get bumper crops, and others you have a drought, or unpleasant things like wars. Hard to get the harvest in if there's a goblin invasion.
Awesome work 'Findel! Very clear and well thought out. I think Toyrobots and I will be stealing this for our game :D
A question: What do you do with the income of people who mix trades and professions, or professions and performance? For example, the farmer's wife who knits during the winter, or the musician who works as a carpenter in the off season.
In all honesty, I have not been thinking that far...
The easy answer would be to calculate the number of weeks worked on each trade. Roll against the trade "A"'s DC, (using the trade "A"'s appropriate skill check) for all the weeks of trade "A". Do the same for trade "B".
But if we look at the big picture, the farmer's wife is probably more of an "assistant farmer" to her husband (or vice-versa, let's not get sexist) than a full-time weaver. Perhaps the farmer is wealthy enough to hire enough labourers to free his wife from the farm's chores, at which points she'd be free to have a profession of her own. But with the children (or with the age if the children are all grown-up) I doubt that if we keep to the medieval-fantasy paradigm, the housewife will have enough spare time to have a profession of her own.
Now that may be true in the case of human peasants, but that may not be as true with wealthier townsfolk or even members of other races. Progressive societies may have it differently. But in most conservative societies, wealthy people would give their wives the privilege of not having to work. Same goes with children. They may be "put to work" in order to train or educate them, but they wouldn't be expected to bring an income on which the household would depend.
Same goes for the performer. As far as the medieval paradigm goes, the performer would rather be poor than work as a laborer - its all about free spirit! Besides, traveling troubadours and saltinbanques may not always have the best reputation. As a (fantasy) contractor, I may be careful about hiring a buffoon (or whatever degrading names I may have for a beggar, even if he got style). Besides, the high season for both trades probably overlaps
Similarly, what do you do about off seasons and seasonal trades? Also, what of guildhalls in large cities? There should also be some note about wartime economies.(...)
Similarly, farming is not a guaranteed game: Some years you get bumper crops, and others you have a drought, or unpleasant things like wars. Hard to get the harvest in if there's a goblin invasion.
Again, I didn't mean to go in that degree of detail. Not yet anyway. First, I'm gonna try to consolidate what I have. I already found some little things that annoy me...
'findel
Awesome work 'Findel! Very clear and well thought out. I think Toyrobots and I will be stealing this for our game :D
Thanks!
But in all humility, I think it could do with a bit more clarity. I'll keep you guys updated!
Ok, I have an issue with the DC 10 trades. My issues is "why would people perform those jobs if they can so easily reach a DC of 15, even while taking 10". Maybe you guys can help me with this...
Let me put you in context.
The lowest kind of trade has a DC of 10, but pays bad.
The middle level has a DC of 15 and bays better.
The highest kind has a DC of 20 and pays best.
I mean the DC to represent the level of technicality of the trade BUT ALSO the public's interest in the product/service. For example, the baker has a trade DC of 10; not because bread is really that easy to make, but because people are not ready to pay a lot for bread. On the other hand, the baker provides a product serving a huge market (pretty much every body in a town that is not rich enough to own an oven, which should be most of the population). So running a bakery is a relatively secure trade (hence its low DC) but unlikely to make you rich given the low value of the product (again, matching the concept of the low DC).
A weaponsmith provides a service to a much more specialized clientele. So the DC is higher not only because the required level of knowledge and craftsmanship is higher, but because the clientele is much smaller. On the other hand, that clientele is ready to pay more for the product. So again, higher DC, higher salary.
So far, things are holding together...
The next category up caters for the elite, a very small market that will buy only the finest goods. But they're rich. So clients are hard to find, products are complex but the money is good.
This category was made with the craftsman capable of producing masterwork goods in mind (since masterwork has a DC of 20). I meant to give the young smith the ability to climb the social ladder from being an apprentice (trade DC of 10), a to journeyman (trade DC of 15), to a master (trade DC of 20). In other words, I'm creating a precedent where an individual capable of producing the DC of the next level could upgrade to the next level an increase its income. While there is nothing wrong with the concept per say, it creates the following problem:
Achieving a check modifier of +5 at 1st level is easy, even for a low stat commoner. As long as Craft or Profession is a class skill for you, take 1 rank and your check modifier is already at +4. All it takes is 1 feat to achieve a DC 15 by taking 10, even with an INT or WIS penalty of -2. So why should people perform trades of a DC of 10 if they can all do the DC 15 from the get go?
suggestions?
Laziness.
Taking 10 is easy if you're not getting slammed. Consider the bartender in the pub with only one customer. He may be an untrained idiot but by trying hard and being well meaning, he will figure things out and get the order right and end up with a pleased customer. Now put the same bartender behind the bar in the middle of a Happy Hour crowd all clamoring for orders at once. He doesn't have time to take 10 for any of them. He's dancing as fast as he can.
I'd suggest that, to work anything as a profession, you don't get to take 10. The bard who goes up to recite poetry for the prince? The prince isn't going to sit still while the bard flips through his song book and tries to find a tune that will please him. Instead, he takes a shot in the dark and just rolls the d20.
Reserve taking 10 for individual tasks which characters are doing as a sideline or hobby, but make plying their trade a straight d20.
This should also apply to Masterwork items as well. It may take longer, but it still shouldn't be a sure thing.
So why should people perform trades of a DC of 10 if they can all do the DC 15 from the get go?
Of course, there's also the possibility that there may not be a market for a "DC 15 bakery" (gosh, I need to come-up with better names for that stuff).
In a larger town where the market allows for more specialized clienteles, an expert baker (as a DC 15 trade) would find a market for "exotic" and specialized breads. That's probably where adventurers get (part of) their trail rations for the ludicrous price of 1 gp per day. Yet, there would be 1 specialized baker for every 10(?) typical bakeries.
That would fit in a socio-economical context, but I'm wondering if that by itself is a good enough explanation. I wouldn't want to to deny a player access to the next trade class because "there isn't such a market for adamantine swords" or whatever...
The other solution is to raise the DCs all across the board like it was suggested. Raising everything by 5 may be a bit much, but raising it by 2 may work. At any cases, I'd still want a level 1 PC to be able to achieve an expert trade (DC 15) with a minimal resources investment on the player's part. I made system to simplify things for the PC, not to gimp them further...
After some thoughts, here's what I'm proposing:
Keep the trade DCs as they are. Include a clause that goes something along the line of:
"A skillful artisan can improve its trade class - and thus improve its base income - if he can perform the new trade class with reliability (achieve the next trade class' DC by taking 10, even under a penalty of -2 for unfavorable circumstances)"
This way, the DC for earning your life as a weaponsmith is still 15, but you can only qualify for the income associated with a DC 15 trade if you have a +7 in your appropriate skill, which should still be in the line of what a dedicated 1st level character can achieve.
Does that make any sense? Does that solve the issue? Is this elegant enough to keep?
'findel
Trying to model all of this in the rules system would create a game within the game situation, the economy of the world becoming as I termed it Ledgers and Actuaries.
Ledgers & Actuaries
A game of heroic accounting in a world of economic-fantasy!
I've been thinking more on this, and much as I initially liked most of this, I've been finding more trouble with the peasant/expert/specialist dichotomy among trades. Allowing the king's baker to step himself up from peasant to expert to specialist is one thing, but is there a way for a jeweler to step down so he can make a puka shell necklace?
I'd advise that the peasant/expert/specialist dichotomy be kept, but as brackets for what sorts of things people make.
Peasants and apprentices should be making and selling the very simple and typical items at DC 5 and 10, experts and journeymen should be selling high quality items at DC 15, and specialists and masters should be selling the complex or superior items at DC 20.
Taking the baker and the jeweler as an example, here's what each should be capable of:
Peasant/Apprentice
Very Simple task, DC 5: bake flatbread (tortillas, pancakes) or string beads (puka shells, etc.)
Typical task, DC 10: bake leavened bread (sourdough, etc.) or cast a signet ring
Expert/Journeyman
High quality work, DC 15: bake festival cakes (stollen, lebkuchen, etc.) or create a jeweled item
Specialist/Master
Complex task, DC 20: assemble a croquembouche or craft an elaborate puzzle ring
After all, the guy selling 5 GP signet rings at the fair is probably not a master jeweler. Or if he is, the 5 GP signet rings are probably the trinkets made by his apprentices, and the truly fine work is what he charges more for.
I've been thinking more on this, and much as I initially liked most of this, I've been finding more trouble with the peasant/expert/specialist dichotomy among trades.
Yeah, I got you. Something tells me that I'm not there yet, but I still think that I'm on the right track (at least the best track I've been on for a while).
the peasant/expert/specialist dichotomy (or trichotomy?) was there to represent the fact that (or at least my conviction that) a master is more than merely a journeyman capable of exceeding the DC by 5. Maybe That shouldn't be.
Maybe I should focus more on the apprentice/journeymen/master triptych rather than peasant/expert/specialist (the names are goofy anyway). Perhaps I could even extend it to unqualified/apprentice/journeyman/master/grand master scale. I meant to keep thing in 3s as a design tool, but it should narrow my creativity down.
You guys have been following this, any suggestions?
'findel
I'm thinking that the peasant/expert/specialist trichotomy names should be ditched, but the same trichotomy and mechanics should be kept, but rather than applied to tiers of trades, should be applied to markets. For example, there might be some village somewhere that has a village blacksmith who's actually a master or grandmaster. Obviously the poor villagers are not going to be able to pay the master the money he should be earning, but the discrepancy can be waved away by explaining that he does a biannual trip to the big city to sell his masterwork items, or he does it at a market fair, or there's some convenient trader who comes through who pays the master what he should be earning and takes the swords off to places where you can charge that much. However, a grand master baker would probably have to work for a king or in a city with a great many wealthy merchants to pull in the salary he deserves.
This isn't as much of a problem as it may seem. One assumes that to make money as a fisherman, you need to do it somewhere where there are fish. If you live in a desert, you're not going to be able to ply your trade.
I like the unqualified/apprentice/journeyman/master/grand master scale and think it works with unqualified being anyone with at least 1 rank in a skill who, barring lack of tools and other circumstance penalties, cannot fail at a DC 5 task, an apprentice being someone who cannot fail at DC 10, a journeyman who cannot fail at DC 15, a master who cannot fail at DC 20, and a grand master who cannot fail a DC 25 task. Or basically, totaling up skill ranks, stat bonuses, class skill bonuses, bonuses from skill focus and whatnot, +4 for unqualified (easily achieved by anyone with one rank in a class skill), +9 for apprentice, +14 for journeyman, +19 for master, and +24 for grandmaster.
A 1st level character, wishing to ply a trade, could have +1 from 1 skill rank, a +3 bonus from it being in a class skill, another +5 from a stat of 20, another +3 from Skill Focus, and a final +2 from masterwork tools, which would put him exactly at the journeyman rank, since he would never fail at a journeyman task, but could still fail at a master level task.
Or to put it another way, taking 10 and taking 20 is for hobbyists and dilettantes who aren't working in the professional world. To be ranked as even an apprentice, you need to be able to do a task of a certain level without fail. And to make money at a trade over a period of months, while it may be assumed you're occasionally attempting tasks over your skill level and sometimes failing, you never fail at your bread and butter skills barring extreme circumstances and negative modifiers.
This make sense?
(stuff)
This make sense?
Yes, it does. And I was coming to a similar conclusion.
I was exploring the avenue that instead of having peasants/experts/specialist, I would have the Peasant class, the Merchant Class and the Gentile Class (or the gentry).
Peasants are just that: peasants. They are the farmers, the shepherds, the fishermen and that's pretty much it. Peasant provides the necessary goods that make civilization possible. Peasants do not earn a lot of money, but their trades makes them rather self-sufficient. Peasants can't really improve their lot. They can become better farmer and better shepherds, but that's not gonna make them rich. Being a peasant sucks and one of the only way to improve your status is to become an adventurer. But that's pretty much the only link they will have with adventurers, peasant trades are NOT MEANT to be played by PCs. The exist as the foundation of civilization and to provide an opportunity for the heroes to protect them from goblins and such.
Then there is the merchant class. Merchants include virtually all the other profession and craft skills. As far as PCs are concerned, this is where they belong at low levels. This is what most of a town's population consist, that and the occasional miller, blacksmith and brewer living in the countryside. Merchants don't grow their food (like the peasants) or have people grow food for them (like the aristocrat); they buy it by living off a trade.
Unlike peasants, merchants have an opportunity to improve their social condition. As apprentices (can't easily make the DC 15), they earn the base salary of a peasant but once they can easily produce DC 20 stuff (including masterwork versions of lower DCs), they can become masters and enter the gentry social class (which has much better base salaries).
The gentry are the wealthy of common-descent (as opposed to lineage-based aristocracy). The Gentry works hard for its money, but they can achieve a level of luxury comparable to lesser nobles. The gentry consist primarily of higher positions taken among the merchant class, in addition to the few hermetic trades that already caters for the elite (such as the Alchemist). PCs should access this social class rather quickly as you demonstrated, which is Ok since this is where they really belong.
I like the peasant/merchant/gentry social class idea, and I think it works with the previous idea of income levels, though I think you should set up some of the social mobility for the highly skilled.
For example, taking the milkmaid as example, as you mentioned earlier, this is really Profession Rancher. Assuming you've got a 1st level character with a 20 wisdom, skill focus, and some really good masterwork ranching tools or a competent assistant for that final +2 bonus, you could have them go from apprentice grade to journeyman grade at their trade and better their social class from peasant to merchant, as might happen when for example the milkmaid turns her parents peasant farm around due to her cleverness and so on and they begin trading at the merchant level rather than the peasant level, as will happen with skilled prosperous farmers.
On the other end of the scale, let's look at the alchemist. Since failure means things like lab explosions and poisonous fumes, if his son is less than stellar at 1st level, he's not going to be able to work as anything better than apprentice, and even a journeyman isn't competent enough for the degree of precision most of this trade's tasks require. The son makes the apprentice or journeyman pay rate and is assumed to be working as an apprentice or journeyman in his dad's shop or some city guildhall, rather than setting up shop as an alchemist on his own, because not being able to take 10 or 20 means poisoning customers or blowing up his lab.
But it should be stressed that there are ways for peasant and merchant tier skills to work their way up to the gentry. Fishermen may be considered peasants, but they're also the source of pearls and caviar, which are definitely things the gentry are interested in. And if a PC for some reason wants to put that many ranks into Profession Fisherman, there's no trouble with them earning a fine income at it once they reach master or grandmaster level.
Has any additional work been done on these rules. I think there was mention of some tidying up and a google doc.
Yes, much clarification and cohesion have been made.
I have a "standard" version of these rules and an "adapted" version to fit some of my house-rules. I'll have to hunt the "standard" version down, but I'll up-load it as soon as I can this weekend.
stay tuned!
'findel
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Alright, here are the Google docs for my Profession, Craft and Perform rules.
All comments are welcome.
'findel
The time to create full plate is listed as "3 days." I assume this should be "3 seasons"? Otherwise, this looks like a decent start.
The time to create full plate is listed as "3 days." I assume this should be "3 seasons"? Otherwise, this looks like a decent start.
Yikes. Yes indeed, 3 seasons to craft a full suit of plate mail.
Thanks for the catch
