Hello,
I have a game tomorrow and I just don't know what to do.
I want to get a mithral heavy spiked shield, but I don't know what I get with that 1000 gold.
Is a mithral shield considered both masterwork armor and weapon? Or do I need to spend that separately for the weapon masterworking?
Thank You
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I want to get a mithral heavy spiked shield, but I don't know what I get with that 1000 gold.
Is a mithral shield considered both masterwork armor and weapon? Or do I need to spend that separately for the weapon masterworking?
Purchasing a Mithril Heavy Shield gives you a masterwork heavy shield with no ACP.
The Shield Spike is handled as a separate weapon for all intents and purposes. So yes you would need to spend 300g to have a masterwork shield spike.
I am sorry, I was in such a rush I forgot to neglect the spikes.
Would a mithral shield be considered masterworked as both a weapon and armor? Because the book does not specify.
Would a mithral shield be considered masterworked as both a weapon and armor? Because the book does not specify.
As I stated above quoted from the Pathfinder Role Playing Game Reference Document.
Even though some types of armor and shields can be used as weapons, you can't create a masterwork version of such an item that confers an enhancement bonus on attack rolls. Instead, masterwork armor and shields have lessened armor check penalties.
Should be the last paragraph in the section on masterwork weapons.
also, the second paragraph under masterwork armor
The masterwork quality of a suit of armor or shield never provides a bonus on attack or damage rolls, even if the armor or shield is used as a weapon.Masterwork shields do not get a +1 bonus to hit when used as a weapon. You can make a masterwork shield into a magic weapon, but the enhancement bonus is separate from any magic enhancement it has as a shield.
Your interpretation seems a bit odd.
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Going over the rules for this it does appear Freesword has the right of it. Except the shield will cost 1,030gp and not 1,300gp as he stated earlier, just misplaced a decimal is all.
According to the text, a shield+spike and armor+spikes cannot be made masterwork to benefit the attacks of these spikes/bash at all. Though the piece of armor/shield may be enchanted as weapons.
Here is the thing, would Shields that have been enchanted as both Armor (+1 Shield) and as a Weapon (+1) suffer a penalty in cost for multiple magical abilities per Crafting Magical items?
Also as a side note. Heavy Shields count as one-handed weapons and Light Shields count as light weapons for two weapon fighting penalties. So TWF with a heavy shield (1d6 dmg)will hit you with a -4 attacks while TWF with a light shield (1d4) will net you the normal -2 attacks being a light weapon in your off-hand.
The use and crafting of Shields should probably be clarified.
The benifit for a shield spike is independent for the bonus for the armor. (Please note that I'm not going to copy the rules and look them up) A shield can be used as an off hand bashing weapon by anyone taking the appropriate minus. The addition of shield spikes changes the "attack" from a bashing type to a piercing type.
The spikes are a seperate item from the shield even though they are attached. They are treated just like double weapons, where you can have a +1 end and a +3 end. So, you could have:
A Mithral shield (enharently MW) with standard spikes
A Mithral shield (enharently MW) with MW Spikes (of standard Iron)
A Mithral Shield (enharently MW) with Mithral Spikes (enharently MW)
A +1 Mithral Shield with standard spikes which only give the +1 benifit to AC ONLY and not to attack.
A +1 Mithral Shield with +1 Spikes (either Steal or Mithral doesn't matter for the example)
Ect ect ect ect.
So, if your intent is to get the cheapest cost for MW to include Mithral... then you are looking at my second listing. They add the +1 to hit due to being MW spikes in an of themselves.
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The benifit for a shield spike is independent for the bonus for the armor. (Please note that I'm not going to copy the rules and look them up)
This is kind of the point. The rules (i.e. verbage) have changed in Pathfinder so you need to look the rule up and quote it. As it is, you made the same mistake I did and assumed it functioned the same as in 3.5e.
As it appears now, Shield Spikes are no longer considered separate from the shield any longer but are an "extra" added to the shield. Shield Spikes are no longer listed under Weapons, only under armor. Additionally, Shields and Spiked Shields are now listed under the Weaponry list. Shield spikes on their own are not. Under Shield Spikes it states:
Shield Spikes: These spikes turn a shield into a martial piercing weapon and increase the damage dealt by a shield bash as if the shield were designed for a creature one size category larger than you (see “spiked shields” on Table: Weapons). You can't put spikes on a buckler or a tower shield. Otherwise, attacking with a spiked shield is like making a shield bash attack.
An enhancement bonus on a spiked shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but a spiked shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.
I italicized the relevant passage. The PRD states that a "spiked shield" itself may be made into a magic weapon, nothing about the spike being separately enhanced. To make it even more confusing here is a quote for Armor Spikes:
An enhancement bonus to a suit of armor does not improve the spikes' effectiveness, but the spikes can be made into magic weapons in their own right.
So which is it? The spikes on armor can be enchanted on their own, wouldn't the same hold true for shield spikes as well? At present in the RAW shield spikes are being handled differently for some odd reason.
Presently, the effect this has right now is that you cannot craft a "Masterwork Shield Spike" by itself and enchant it as a weapon. Instead now you must have a "Masterwork Spiked Shield" and enchant it as a weapon.
Whether this is all due to intention or simply text in need of clearing up, only an official clarification will tell!
It's still the same thing from both of your quotes.
The primary function of a shield... and armor... it to protect the individual. Not to cause damage. It just happens that a shield "could" be used as a shield bash which does cause some damage.
Think of it like the Whip. Whip's cause subdual damage and 0 damage to armored individuals. Enhancements to the whip can change these functions, i.e. barbs to (I think) piercing damage and magic properties to cause injury to armored individuals.
Enhancements to shields and armor, (under normal circumstances) increase the effectiveness of their protective qualities. The addition of spikes (just like barbs to the whip) chage the type of damage they could do.
Your quotes from the PRD say the exact same thing for both catagories. An enhancement bonus to a suit of armor (or a spiked shield for a shield bash attack) does not improve the spikes' effectiveness, but the spikes can be made into magic weapons in their own right.
This means if you want an enhancement bonus to effect the spikes's effectiveness in combat in addition to or in place of their enhancement bonus for armor effectiveness (either on a set of armor or a shield for a shield bash) then the enhancement bonus needs to be added to the spike seperately i.e. treate it like a double weapon where the armor has one enhancement bonus and the spike has another enhancement bonus.
Presently, the effect this has right now is that you cannot craft a "Masterwork Shield Spike" by itself and enchant it as a weapon. Instead now you must have a "Masterwork Spiked Shield" and enchant it as a weapon.
And you can't craft a masterwork ring, so then there shouldn't be any magic rings in this game either. Frankly I'm not finding anyplace where is says MW spikes can't be created. I think you are putting restrictions on a "naming convention" like a +2 MC longbow of Strength +1. A +2 weapon that grants +1 STR DMG. A MW Spiked Shield is a MW shield with spikes added for ease of printing. If it is printed in the book and I haven't found yet, just because you can't craft MW spikes, doesn't mean magic ones can't exist. That's why it is called... Magic!