Help: A Druid who can't Spell

[Trouble07]

The druid has always been my favorite class, but now since it's received it's mandatory nerf-ing I'm left with a much weaker wild shape. Wild shape was always my favorite part of the game. I've read many of the posts out there about how over-powered the old druid was, but I never experienced that. So, now that the new version is so much weaker, I'm compelled to get back some of the kick that the old wild shape had. I never cared one bit for the spell casting aspect of the druid, and would like to offer up the spell casting abilities, in exchange for better wild shaping and perhaps a more powerful companion.

There are, however, a few of the low level spells that seem to be neccessary to the nature of being a druid. So I thought the orisons plus speak with animals could become spell-like abilities.

Ok... what help can you guys provide. Please be kind. I'm seriously not power-gaming, I've just never cared for the spell casting aspect of druids. Shape-shifting is where the fun is for me, and without a more complete feral form, I'm losing faith in the druid.

Thanks.

[Aikuchi]

Trouble07 wrote:

The druid has always been my favorite class, but now since it's received it's mandatory nerf-ing I'm left with a much weaker wild shape. Wild shape was always my favorite part of the game. I've read many of the posts out there about how over-powered the old druid was, but I never experienced that. So, now that the new version is so much weaker, I'm compelled to get back some of the kick that the old wild shape had. I never cared one bit for the spell casting aspect of the druid, and would like to offer up the spell casting abilities, in exchange for better wild shaping and perhaps a more powerful companion.

There are, however, a few of the low level spells that seem to be neccessary to the nature of being a druid. So I thought the orisons plus speak with animals could become spell-like abilities.

Ok... what help can you guys provide. Please be kind. I'm seriously not power-gaming, I've just never cared for the spell casting aspect of druids. Shape-shifting is where the fun is for me, and without a more complete feral form, I'm losing faith in the druid.

Thanks.

I was just wondering ... if you're the player of the Druid and are looking for good variants to emphasize the Wildshaping aspect and perhaps in exchange for some spellcasting; is your GM open to these changes?

:D

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[Quandary]

The main thing making it "much weaker" is your Stats might not be as high while Wildshaped, right?

So what's stopping you from focusing on STR/DEX/CON and minimally on WIS?

[Eric Tillemans]

Trouble07 wrote:

The druid has always been my favorite class, but now since it's received it's mandatory nerf-ing I'm left with a much weaker wild shape. Wild shape was always my favorite part of the game. I've read many of the posts out there about how over-powered the old druid was, but I never experienced that. So, now that the new version is so much weaker, I'm compelled to get back some of the kick that the old wild shape had. I never cared one bit for the spell casting aspect of the druid, and would like to offer up the spell casting abilities, in exchange for better wild shaping and perhaps a more powerful companion.

There are, however, a few of the low level spells that seem to be neccessary to the nature of being a druid. So I thought the orisons plus speak with animals could become spell-like abilities.

Ok... what help can you guys provide. Please be kind. I'm seriously not power-gaming, I've just never cared for the spell casting aspect of druids. Shape-shifting is where the fun is for me, and without a more complete feral form, I'm losing faith in the druid.

Thanks.

I'd start with full BAB and increase the wild shaping capabilties to begin at 1st level instead of 5th. Also, I'd grant a bonus combat feat (usable in wild shape forms only) at 1st level and every 4 levels after that.

At 7th level, I'd add in the capability to speak while in wild shape form.

I'm not sure where'd I'd go from there, but that's a good start.

[Kevin Andrew Murphy]

Here's a simple idea: Druids can already burn their spells into Summon Nature's Ally at will. Let them also burn some of them into Wild Shape.

For example, Wild Shape at the beginning operates like Beast Shape 1, which is a third level spell. Druids now get Wild Shape at 4th level. 5th is sort of a dead level for special abilities, but they do get the power to cast third levels spells. Let them burn their third levels for an extra Wild Shape.

When they get the fancier versions of Wild Shape, they can also burn the fancier spells to get more uses of them.

That gives them a bunch more versatility without exactly giving up the spellcasting, but if they want more wildshapes for a day, they do need to sacrifice some spells.

[Trouble07]

Quandary wrote:

The main thing making it "much weaker" is your Stats might not be as high while Wildshaped, right?

So what's stopping you from focusing on STR/DEX/CON and minimally on WIS?

What I enjoy about wildshape, is it's independence from a character's own physical stats. So I could have a diminutive character; rather unassuming, but when he needs to defend his grove (or fellow adventurer's) then he takes his strength from nature.

That's what made wild shape so unique. I become powerful because a bear is powerful, not because I was already powerful.

I also hate how both PFrpg and 4th ed. mention that a player "looks like" an animal of that type, but it doesn't say that you become that animal. I personally feel like that pulls the druid away from it's roots. A Druid should become a wolf in appearance only, a druid should truly become a wolf. It should hunt like one, smell like one, fight like one... For a Druid to simply appear to be an animal, but to otherwise remain himself, it seems silly.

Why bother to look like an animal at all.

I play a druid to be someone so in tune with nature and with the animal kingdom, that I can speak with animals, understand animals, and truly become an animal.

My favorite races to play druid with, are typically halflings or gnomes, with the occasional old man human or elf. The small races seem to share a connection with nature already and the wild shape strengths, seemed a perfect compliment to their small stature. My tree-hugging halfling might not look like much now, but wait until he's a dire wolf breathing down your neck.
The venerable druid has always been another pleasing juxtaposition. A weak old hermit, living in the woods; wolves constantly surrounding his cabin. Delicate and frail, until.... you get the picture.

There was a very good reason that your physical were altered during animal form, and that is because the strength to battle didn't come from yourself, but from nature.

I've played a druid once that had 1 level of druid, just for the animal companion and background story, but then every subsequent level was from the Werewolf racial levels. This worked pretty great. The GM let me pretend that those weren't werewolf levels, and it was just my natural Druid progression for this particular druid. It was nearly spot on, for what I wanted; A druid that could shapeshift whenever he felt like it. I just made the wolf his totem beast, and it made sense for him to always shift into wolf form. The only problem I had was that those racial levels, never seemed quite as powerful as normal levels in a class, but it was a small price to pay.

I know there are PrC that do almost what I'm wanting, but I really feel like this is more the territory of a variant druid. The same druidic philosophy, minus the spell-casting (or external control of nature), with a focus on shape-shifting (or internal union of self and nature).

[Trouble07]

Aikuchi wrote:

I was just wondering ... if you're the player of the Druid and are looking for good variants to emphasize the Wildshaping aspect and perhaps in exchange for some spellcasting; is your GM open to these changes?

:D

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The GMs I play with are usually pretty open to whatever we request. It because of that trust on their part, that I like to do my best to balance my homebrews before presenting them. (and try to save them some headache later)

[inkedmsd]

In my campaign setting I have split the abilities of the Druid into three variants, like a threefold path.

Green Bound (Plantshape & Healing)
Beast Bound ( wildshape)
Primal Bound (elemental)

The Beast Bound
1st level Nature's Bond Animal - communicate w/ animals
2nd Gain Scent as feat
4th Wild shape animal only
8th Gain Natural Attack
9th Gain DR 3
10th Gain Natural Spell feat
15th Gain DR5

Modified spell list. I removed all healing spells, plant type spells and elemental type spells.

I like the idea of increasing the BAB to full.

[CunningMongoose]

If you don't care for spellcasting, ask you gm to grant you the barbarian rage (natural rage - only when wildshaped?) and use the ranger spell progression instead.

Seems powerfull, but with medium BAB and d8 HD, it should not be too much.

Should help you in melee, and to get back the "animal" feel of wildshape.

Just an idea, not sure if it would be balanced.

[Trouble07]

CunningMongoose wrote:

If you don't care for spellcasting, ask you gm to grant you the barbarian rage (natural rage - only when wildshaped?) and use the ranger spell progression instead.

Seems powerfull, but with medium BAB and d8 HD, it should not be too much.

Should help you in melee, and to get back the "animal" feel of wildshape.

Just an idea, not sure if it would be balanced.

That's a pretty cool idea. I'd call it Nature's Rage or Primal Fury or something.

A higher BAB is ok, but not my main focus. Hmmm.... I'll try to put together some solid thoughts on this, and then I'll post it for balancing ideas.

Thanks for all the good input. Keep it coming.

[Aikuchi]

Trouble07 wrote:

CunningMongoose wrote:

If you don't care for spellcasting, ask you gm to grant you the barbarian rage (natural rage - only when wildshaped?) and use the ranger spell progression instead.

Seems powerfull, but with medium BAB and d8 HD, it should not be too much.

Should help you in melee, and to get back the "animal" feel of wildshape.

Just an idea, not sure if it would be balanced.

That's a pretty cool idea. I'd call it Nature's Rage or Primal Fury or something.

A higher BAB is ok, but not my main focus. Hmmm.... I'll try to put together some solid thoughts on this, and then I'll post it for balancing ideas.

Thanks for all the good input. Keep it coming.

Perhaps the limited spellcasting (such as ranger's list) - would grant way for particular modes of wildshape that you can access at different levels or all at once (which gets stronder with each application of higher level Wildhshapes).

I.e Savage wildshape form (bonus to Str + Con), Feral wildshape form (bonus to Str + Dex) .... accordingly for more versatility mechanically.

Just off the top of my head :p

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