XP Distribution and NPCs


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I'm wondering how NPCs accompanying the PCs on parts of an adventure - for example, Shalelu on Thistletop in Burnt Offerings, or Shalelu and the rescued Black Arrow rangers at Fort Rannick in The Hook Mountain Massacre - affect the distribution of XPs to the PCs.

As an example, say you have four PCs going to Thistletop with Shalelu accompanying and helping them. Usually you award XP for four characters. Now, with Shalelu, do you keep awarding as before, or would Shalelu figure in as a fifth PC would? Which is the better way to go?

Liberty's Edge

I personally give the players a choice: they can either give the NPC a cut of the experience (ex. he'd count as a fifth party member and gain XP accordingly) or they can have the NPC be more of a background/support character.

In the latter case the XP is still divided four ways (between the PCs) but the NPC gets bonus experience after combat equal to 1/4 of a PC's share (so if a battle awarded each PC 1,000 experience points, the NPC would get 250).

This method, while it certainly won't work for everyone, lets the PCs choose how they want the NPC to run with them. Would they like him to stay close to them power-wise? Then go with the first option. If they don't mind him falling behind a bit, go with the second.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

I think that Mr. Jacobs had earlier stated that an NPC joining the party should not penalize the group's experience (else the players would NEVER allow an NPC into the party reguardless of role-play reasons).

So -if my memory is correct- experience would still be divided by the number of player characters. Treasure, would be another matter, of course.


What my group does is that NPC's get a half share of XP, and a full share of treasure.

So, with a 4 character group, and one NPC aiding in combat, the encounter XP is divided by 4.5 to determine the PC share. And if you track the NPC XP, it would gain half of that.

Liberty's Edge

I use two different methods. Usually, I'll just add another monster or two for the NPC to fight, or I'll increase the monster's HP if there's only one monster. To be honest though, I won't really keep track of the extra HP or the HP of the extra monster or the damage rolls of the NPC.

Basically, I want to give the illusion of the NPC being helpful (so the PCs don't regret teaming up) without having them make the encounter any easier. This allows the PCs to get the normal amount of XP.

However, I sometimes make an exception to this. If the NPC is supposed to be a hindrance or a hero, I'll play them that way (although, in the case of the hero NPC, the first tactic can often be used: just add an extra monster of a higher CR). If the PCs specifically go find and hire someone with a specific skill-set, you have to take that into account as well. I.E. they hire a rogue to help with traps or a ranger (favored enemy orcs) to help with orcs.
This can turn into a balancing act. If the NPC rogue disables the traps in a way that puts the PCs at no risk, that's hardly a challenge. I wouldn't give much XP for that, since they are trading XP for safety. On the other hand, let's assume that the ranger makes the orc battle really easy. Should they get reduced XP? What if instead of hiring the ranger, they spent the same money on a single-use anti-orc item that made the battle just as easy; would you reduce XP in that case?
When the PCs use their resources wisely, they should be rewarded. It's a hard thing to judge.

Scarab Sages

NPCs that accompany the party do not, by default, gain a share of experience. This was James Jacobs' ruling and is a sound one, to encourage the party to work with other people on occasion.

Individual DMs may choose to rule differently, as usual.

Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys

Paizo Employee Creative Director

My suggestion: Don't penalize PCs for having NPCs in the group unless you let the PCs control those NPCs. Basically, things like cohorts should advance and gain XP, but NPCs the GM throws in for story reasons or whatever should probably just gain levels when the bulk of the PCs do or whenever the GM wants.

If you put an NPC in the group because they're underpowered and need the extra help, penalizing them the XP kind of just aggravates the situation, doesn't it?


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Thanks everyone for your answers. I think it's really best to jut keep awarding XPs the same way, with or without the NPCs.


Lord Fyre wrote:

I think that Mr. Jacobs had earlier stated that an NPC joining the party should not penalize the group's experience (else the players would NEVER allow an NPC into the party reguardless of role-play reasons).

So -if my memory is correct- experience would still be divided by the number of player characters. Treasure, would be another matter, of course.

I respectfully disagree as strongly as I possibly can.

It seems to me that this idea (the players XP being penalized) comes from a very narrative background in roleplaying.

In my adventures there is a *high* chance of death from every encounter. Only good play and smart tactics will win the day. Having hirelings and NPC's provides a target rich environment for the enemies.

They are not being *penalized*. They are weighing the risk (without NPC's henchmen/cohorts or hirelings they are more likely to be the sole targets) versus the reward (the safer they are the less reward there is for the adventure).
-Campbell


Zaister wrote:
Thanks everyone for your answers. I think it's really best to jut keep awarding XPs the same way, with or without the NPCs.

I fully agree with this the majority of the time.

On the occasions that I feel I need to divide out the XP a bit (like the HMM scenario with Shalelu + Rangers noted above), I do the following:

# of PCs + 1/2 # of NPCs (round down), divided into the XP. PCs get this. NPCs instead get PCs+NPCs divided into the XP. [Yes, this fabricates more XP].

So basically every two NPCs count as an extra divider, for the PCs purposes, but not at all if there's only one. I do the same for having DM PC's around (that won't necessarily be there all the time).

Again, I totally don't feel this is something necessary to do, but serves as a decent system if you choose to.

Treasure on the other hand, my Players tend to be a *LOT* more protective of - fortunately I'm lenient. Major NPCs get the "last-pick", and sometimes a share of gold. Minor NPCs usually can skim through the leftovers, and no share of gold.


Quote:

A cohort does not count as a party member when

determining the party’s XP. Instead, divide the cohort’s
level by your level. Multiply this result by the total XP
awarded to you, then add that number of experience points
to the cohort’s total.

Even if you take the leadership feat and you gain a cohort, the cohort doesn't detract from the main party xp.

Now, once it gets to the point where the main party is pulling out the lawn chairs and their mugs with the little umbrellas, while the DM NPC does all the work, then you have problems.

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