Summon nature ally and summon monster

[glenstryder]

Hello,

I am currently looking at a caster druid build (I mean a druid with 8 str that cannot really fight shifted).
I wanted to focus on summon nature ally and so on. But I just found out that the summon monster spell is just better than summon nature ally.

In fact, you can summon the same thing with summon monster, but the summoned monster has the celestial/fiendish subtype in addition depending on the caster alignement.

Did I miss out something or is the druid the worst summoner ?

Thanks

[Gorbacz]

Druid can "lose" any prepared spell and cast a summon nature's ally instead, something that no Wiz/Sorc can.

And you get to summon Purple Worms ! :)

[Peter Stewart]

It's an interesting change from 3.5 where the Druid summons were universally better than the wizards (who's list was worthless).

[James Jacobs]

It's true that summon nature's ally is slightly weaker than summon monster due to the fact that nature's allies don't get the celestial or fiendish simple templates. But remember, the druid in 3.5 was one of the most powerful, if not THE most powerful classes.

They have better armor, better base attakcs, better saves, and better weapons than wizards. They have a very robust animal companion, and wildshape. All that on TOP of having spells.

It's okay if wizard summon spells work better than druid summon spells, in other words.

[Emperor7]

And the summoning lists have improved from 3.5. Me like!

[hogarth]

Emperor7 wrote:

And the summoning lists have improved from 3.5. Me like!

Not so fast -- they've been improved and weakened at the same time. For instance, the dire bat has been moved from level 2 to level 3, notwithstanding the fact that the version of the dire bat in the Bestiary is weaker than the version in the Monster Manual. Likewise, the dire wolf has been weakened and has been pushed up a spell level as well:

Dire Bat
Dire Wolf

[Emperor7]

hogarth wrote:

Emperor7 wrote:

And the summoning lists have improved from 3.5. Me like!

Not so fast -- they've been improved and weakened at the same time. For instance, the dire bat has been moved from level 2 to level 3, notwithstanding the fact that the version of the dire bat in the Bestiary is weaker than the version in the Monster Manual. Likewise, the dire wolf has been weakened and has been pushed up a spell level as well:

Dire Bat
Dire Wolf

Eeek! I got distracted by the giants and the Purple Worm. Must re-evaluate previous excitement. :(

[Lael Treventhius]

Elementals though are on the nature's ally list. Are they are certaintly worth it.

[Abraham spalding]

something else to consider from the Errata:

"Page 351
In Table 10–1: Summon Monster, move the “Giant Frog” entry
from the 4th level list to the 2nd level list. Move the “Giant
Spider” entry from the 3rd level list to the 2nd level list. Make
the same changes to Table 10–2: Summon Nature’s Ally on
page 353 (the Giant Spider appears on the 5th level list).
Page 352
In Table 10–1: Summon Monster, change the Ghaele azata
subtype to “Chaotic, Good”. Also change the Trumpet
archon’s subtypes to “Good, Lawful”."