Builds

[Jarazix]

Hello All,

Well pathfinder is out, classes have changes...I think its time to start thinking up builds. As the Char Op forum is down on the wizards site ( and has been for weeks ), and that who knows how long they will keep a 3e related forum. That is without mentioning the differences in classes. I thought we could use our own char op forum, or at least thread.

A very basic one would be a pathfinder eldritch knight

Fighter 1/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight 10/ Abjurant Champion 3

BAB 17 CL 18
Access to 11th level fighter feats
Saves F12 R6 W9

10 Class feats
3 feats from EK
1 from wizard
1 feat spent on Combat Casting for Abjurant Champion

[Sir Hexen Ineptus]

If you are using Adjuration Champion, why would this not be better?

Fighter 1/Battle Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Adjuration Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 9

or

Fighter 1/Battle Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Aduration Champion 4/Eldritch Knight 10.

You would have little to no loss in base attack, no loss in caster level with first build, and only 2 actual spell levels lost, but with 1 less known spell and one less cast-able spell per spell level, but with light armor casting, and you could even use a shield with the 10% ASF from Spellsword. You would also have access to 1 9th level spell if you have a high enough CHA, which could be done with books and +6 CHA item easily.

The latter build would get you the ability to use the Eldritch Knight capestone ability any time you make a critical, as you would not have to use your swift action on Arcane Armor training feat.

[Epic Meepo]

Here's a link to the thread requesting that Paizo create an official Character Optimization forum.

[Jarazix]

Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

If you are using Adjuration Champion, why would this not be better?

Fighter 1/Battle Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Adjuration Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 9

or

Fighter 1/Battle Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Aduration Champion 4/Eldritch Knight 10.

You would have little to no loss in base attack, no loss in caster level with first build, and only 2 actual spell levels lost, but with 1 less known spell and one less cast-able spell per spell level, but with light armor casting, and you could even use a shield with the 10% ASF from Spellsword. You would also have access to 1 9th level spell if you have a high enough CHA, which could be done with books and +6 CHA item easily.

The latter build would get you the ability to use the Eldritch Knight capestone ability any time you make a critical, as you would not have to use your swift action on Arcane Armor training feat.

My problem with that is I only really care about BAB 16 for the 4th attack. With magic I can buff myself to the point where bab doesn't matter. But those 4 battle sorcerer levels also mean you will always be a sub par caster.

[Jarazix]

Epic Meepo wrote:

Here's a link to the thread requesting that Paizo create an official Character Optimization forum.

Didn't realize people here hated that so much. I will drop the idea

But it is nice to see flavorfull builds. Some work really well and are very interesting, others no dm in their right mind would allow.

[asur asdf]

if u are taking a gish and feats of 3.5 think in invisible skirmirsher prerequisite: base attack 6+ benefit: you gain and AoO every time a oponent attack you when invisible.

[Sir Hexen Ineptus]

I am going nutss here trying to build a society shield character!

FYI it is a 20pt buy and a max of 12 levels
I am trying to incorperate these feats

Greater TWF
Improved Shield Bash
Shatter Defences
Shield Slam
Shield Mastery

The idea is that I intimidate a group of them and send them flying with many slam attacks... I useually end up getting Improved bull rush, because I want to send them flying far, so I need power attack. Because I need power attack, I useually end up using two one handed shields, and well I just seem to be getting into a loop. Can some one help me with this concept build? Optimized is not nessassary, just functional is all I want.

[Eric Mason 37]

Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

I useually end up getting Improved bull rush, because I want to send them flying far

If you're using Shield Slam, then you're using your attack roll instead of a manuver check. So I don't think you can apply the check bonus from Improved Bull Rush.

Does losing Power Attack and Improved Bull Rush make your build easier?

[Eric Mason 37]

Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

I am going nutss here trying to build a society shield character!

FYI it is a 20pt buy and a max of 12 levels
I am trying to incorperate these feats

Greater TWF
Improved Shield Bash
Shatter Defences
Shield Slam
Shield Mastery

The idea is that I intimidate a group of them and send them flying with many slam attacks... <snip>

Since I don't think you can use the bonus from improved bull rush with shield slam, here is a build that you might like:

Human fighter 12

Str 16 (10pts) + 2 human + 2 stat boosting item = 20
Dex 14 (5pts) + 1 lvl4 + 1 lvl 8 + 1 lvl 12 + 2 stat boosting item = 19
Con 14 (5pts)
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 10

Feats:
1 Weapon Focus
1 Intimidating Prowess
H Iron Will
2 Dazzling Display
3 Shield Focus
4 Two-Weapon Fighting
5 Weapon Specialization
6 Shatter Defences
7 Lunge
8 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (must have + 2 dex item to qualify)
9 Improved Shield Bash
10 Shield Slam
11 Shield Master
12 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting

Weapon Training:
Close and whatever your main weapon will be

By level 12 I have assumed you could buy a belt of physical might +2 for 10,000 gold that does strength and dexterity, which you need to have as high as possible. Strength for the attack bonus (which will be your bull rush), and dex so you can get the extra off-hand attacks.

I tossed in Lunge so you can easily get a few intimidated foes in range with your full attack.

I hope this is helpful.

[Sir Hexen Ineptus]

Eric Mason 37 wrote:

Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

I am going nutss here trying to build a society shield character!

FYI it is a 20pt buy and a max of 12 levels
I am trying to incorperate these feats

Greater TWF
Improved Shield Bash
Shatter Defences
Shield Slam
Shield Mastery

The idea is that I intimidate a group of them and send them flying with many slam attacks... <snip>

Since I don't think you can use the bonus from improved bull rush with shield slam, here is a build that you might like:

Human fighter 12

Str 16 (10pts) + 2 human + 2 stat boosting item = 20
Dex 14 (5pts) + 1 lvl4 + 1 lvl 8 + 1 lvl 12 + 2 stat boosting item = 19
Con 14 (5pts)
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 10

Feats:
1 Weapon Focus
1 Intimidating Prowess
H Iron Will
2 Dazzling Display
3 Shield Focus
4 Two-Weapon Fighting
5 Weapon Specialization
6 Shatter Defences
7 Lunge
8 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (must have + 2 dex item to qualify)
9 Improved Shield Bash
10 Shield Slam
11 Shield Master
12 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting

Weapon Training:
Close and whatever your main weapon will be

By level 12 I have assumed you could buy a belt of physical might +2 for 10,000 gold that does strength and dexterity, which you need to have as high as possible. Strength for the attack bonus (which will be your bull rush), and dex so you can get the extra off-hand attacks.

I tossed in Lunge so you can easily get a few intimidated foes in range with your full attack.

I hope this is helpful.

OK, interesting though, thanks. I'll keep these suggestions in mind, but I really would switch Iron will and Improved shield bash, as you would generally want to keep your shield bonus.

Thanks.

[Eric Mason 37]

Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

OK, interesting though, thanks. I'll keep these suggestions in mind, but I really would switch Iron will and Improved shield bash, as you would generally want to keep your shield bonus.

Thanks.

Given the attack penalties, I wouldn't bother shield bashing until you get shield master personally. You can easily re-order if you do want to. Perhaps Shield Focus as the human feat, then Improved Shield Bash at 3rd, right before you get Two-Weapon Fighting, and then Iron Will at 9th? That way Improved Shield Bash is only a dead feat for one level rather than three.

[Sir Hexen Ineptus]

Eric Mason 37 wrote:

Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

OK, interesting though, thanks. I'll keep these suggestions in mind, but I really would switch Iron will and Improved shield bash, as you would generally want to keep your shield bonus.

Thanks.

Given the attack penalties, I wouldn't bother shield bashing until you get shield master personally. You can easily re-order if you do want to. Perhaps Shield Focus as the human feat, then Improved Shield Bash at 3rd, right before you get Two-Weapon Fighting, and then Iron Will at 9th? That way Improved Shield Bash is only a dead feat for one level rather than three.

The idea is to catch them flat footed using shatter defenses, mitigating the shield bash minuses.

[Eric Mason 37]

Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

The idea is to catch them flat footed using shatter defenses, mitigating the shield bash minuses.

I did notice that, however IMO that is what makes it worth getting Shield Master at all.

CMD is very high, and pushing anyone more than five feet with a PC is going to be rare. Actually having the targets positioned correctly to push straight back into walls is going to be even rarer. (Shocktrooper, which would give you directed bullrush isn't great with the new rules because you can't power attack for 5 until level 16.)

Consider then that you're going to have to spend a full round action on the dazzling display, and hope they don't wander away from you before your next turn to get the next full round action (so you can use all your extra shield attacks). It's a big set up, for a small payoff IMO.

Trying it when your off-hand penalty is being used for the manuver check, and you're not getting the shield bonus to hit either, means you're looking at -3/-6 in comparison to when you'll have Shield Master...

I do urge you to take Lunge with Shield Slam. Nothing would suck more than accidentally bull rushing someone away before you've finished hitting them.

I can see using it at level 11 or 12, but before that, I think you're better off tanking as normal. Of course that is my opinion. If you find it works out for you, great.

[Sir Hexen Ineptus]

Eric Mason 37 wrote:

Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

The idea is to catch them flat footed using shatter defenses, mitigating the shield bash minuses.

I did notice that, however IMO that is what makes it worth getting Shield Master at all.

CMD is very high, and pushing anyone more than five feet with a PC is going to be rare. Actually having the targets positioned correctly to push straight back into walls is going to be even rarer. (Shocktrooper, which would give you directed bullrush isn't great with the new rules because you can't power attack for 5 until level 16.)

Consider then that you're going to have to spend a full round action on the dazzling display, and hope they don't wander away from you before your next turn to get the next full round action (so you can use all your extra shield attacks). It's a big set up, for a small payoff IMO.

Trying it when your off-hand penalty is being used for the manuver check, and you're not getting the shield bonus to hit either, means you're looking at -3/-6 in comparison to when you'll have Shield Master...

I do urge you to take Lunge with Shield Slam. Nothing would suck more than accidentally bull rushing someone away before you've finished hitting them.

I can see using it at level 11 or 12, but before that, I think you're better off tanking as normal. Of course that is my opinion. If you find it works out for you, great.

OK thanks, you did give me some good ideas.