In the PHB it states that a wizard needs to study a spellbook in order to prepare spells except for Read Magic which can be done from memory.
Beta rules state after one hour of study the wizard chooses which spells to prepare.
So I can understand Bungo the first level wizard having to study his spellbook for an hour, I can't see why has Bungo The Magnificent, Arch-Mage to the Court of King Whatever, still has to study his spellbook for a spell he has been *studying* an hour a day for the last twenty years.
It becomes even more ridiculous if (as in the PHB) he can prepare Read Magic from MEMORY.
So what is it with wizards, do they go senile/forgetful as they progress levels?
I interprete it that kind of way:
Spells in it`s written form are not just a few sentences like a poem.
It´s much more than this, it`s dozens of variables, magic runes and much like high mathematics nothing you can remember no matter how often you read it.Read magic seems to include some basic understanding and is quite easy to memorize.
comparing to a Sorceror:
They got it in their blood, the spells are intuitively cast and then the sorceror can adapt it and reproduce. it`s more like "uh i knew how it felt the first time, i knew where to draw the energy from".
So it`s : Knowledge, Formulas and Preparation against Intuitive sometimes uncontrollable learning by doing.
Yep I can buy that, however for the sake of it, lets play Devil's Advocate here. No offense meant or intended.
Bungo has maxed his stats at first level and has 18 INT then ploughed all his stat points into INT and has a Headband of Mental Prowess +6 and is pushing his INT to that of a Great Wrym Gold Dragon.
Now I could accept 9th lvl spells being a problem but Bungo has been preparing Magic Missile from day one. And now he has the brain the size of a planet. And he still needs to brush up on the spell to cast it.
What I am trying to do is come up with a workable way around this other than use RAW. Maybe allowing the wizard from X lvl able to prepare a first level spell of choice without his book and at X+Y prepare another.
Creative Director
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Spells are magic, remember, not actual thoughts. While the text uses words like "study" and "memorize" and "prepare," it's probably better to think of a wizard's brain as a container in which spells are placed or poured. His spellbook is the device that holds his magic spells, and so each morning he pours spells out of his spellbook into his brain, where they sit until used. As the wizard gains levels, his brain gains more containers for more spells, but when he uses them, he has to take the spell OUT of that container. He certainly remembers how it feels to have the spell in there, how to cast the spell, and what it does, but since he's taken the spell itself (which isn't a part of him, any more than a sword is part of a fighter) and used it, he has to go back and replace it by pouring it back into a brain hole from his spellbook.
I've studied mathematics most days of my adult life and I still review the section of a first-year calculus text I'm going to be teaching in a day or so. Soldiers do drills in the fundamentals, expert martial artists run through the basic forms, etc., and if they don't then they don't stay at peak effectiveness. Knowing something and being able to replicate it under combat conditions are two entirely different things.
The in-game answer to your question is usually that wizards are not simply 'relearning' spells -- they essentially 'learned' them through the laborious process of transcribing them into their personal conceptual system, which they did when they successfully recorded the spell in their spellbook. Rather, they are collecting the requisite magical energies and preparing them for later release upon mental command.
The meta-game answer is that dependence on equipment, with concurrent potential loss, is the price a wizard pays for increased breadth of knowledge over the sorcerer to keep the two classes balanced against each other, at least in part.
Spells as skills are entirely doable, and are a core mechanic of some systems, like GURPS. With this system, a wizard puts points into the spells he learns and rolls against skill to achieve the desired effects. I've never seen it done in d20, but a quick Google suggests it may have been. At a quick handwave, I would give a typical spell a DC of 10 + spell level, and a wizard an additional number of skill points equal to the number of new spell levels he would typically get at that level, plus 1/2 for a 0-level. (So if you gained another 0-level spell per day, a 1st-level, and a 2nd-level, you would get another 3.5 points over your usual complement of 2+Int.) You can cast any spell you have points in (trained only, in other words), capped at the usual highest level for your experience, and have a total number of "spell energy levels" available equal to your usual daily amount.
This moves the wizard toward the Sorcerer in flexibility but risks his spells failing in combat. There are probably other holes that would need to be patched if you wanted to use it.
Spells are magic, remember, not actual thoughts. While the text uses words like "study" and "memorize" and "prepare," it's probably better to think of a wizard's brain as a container in which spells are placed or poured. His spellbook is the device that holds his magic spells, and so each morning he pours spells out of his spellbook into his brain, where they sit until used. As the wizard gains levels, his brain gains more containers for more spells, but when he uses them, he has to take the spell OUT of that container. He certainly remembers how it feels to have the spell in there, how to cast the spell, and what it does, but since he's taken the spell itself (which isn't a part of him, any more than a sword is part of a fighter) and used it, he has to go back and replace it by pouring it back into a brain hole from his spellbook.
Cool.
I raised the question because I have just started the AoW AP using Pathfinder and I know someone will bring up the question. Spell Mastery feat takes care of the issue perfectly. I do like to have some kind of logic behind things rather than say its just because it says so!
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I've always thought it was because the manipulation of magical energies (i.e. Spellcraft) was a difficult process that even the most advanced mathematicians and physicists had a difficult time explaining. Sorcerers are born with (or somehow attain) a natural talent for manipulating magical energies without trying to understand the obscure formulae for manifesting a force effect in a thirty degree arc with the principled manifestation of substantiary locomotion, and a principled containment of secondary force effects that said manifestation influences.
Dont know if this was answered but it is specifically stated the hour of study is preparing those spells to be cast at a moment's notice, i.e. in the round or full-round that it actually takes, instead of the minute or minutes that it would normally take. The hour is spent incanting, memorizing, and preparing the spells so that they are ready to be cast with a few simple triggers. Basically priming the lawnmower, so to speak.
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Dont know if this was answered but it is specifically stated the hour of study is preparing those spells to be cast at a moment's notice, i.e. in the round or full-round that it actually takes, instead of the minute or minutes that it would normally take. The hour is spent incanting, memorizing, and preparing the spells so that they are ready to be cast with a few simple triggers. Basically priming the lawnmower, so to speak.
Yup. Similarly, I've studied Japanese for about five years, and I still have to study the kanji (Chinese characters) for about 30 minutes a day just to review old ones and keep my memory fresh, because if I slack off then it gets much harder to remember things. Even with daily practice, I still forget a few characters each day of review, and many more I write with a slight error. And that's just 2,000 characters in a non-magical language - imagine what it would take to learn and retain magical writings.
Given that, I think that an hour of review each day to make sure that you cast each spell absolutely perfectly is actually quite light compared to what it would actually require realistically, even for an archmage.
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I used to resent the memorization relic, because I didn't understand where it came from or how it originally worked. Here's a good, concise, article about the origins of spell preparation:
http://beyondtheblackgate.blogspot.com/2009/06/why-vancian-magic-is-vancian .html
I'm now a big fan spell preparation. A wizard must think about their spell selection, often requiring the player to be almost as intelligent and educated as the character they're playing.
As an aside, the only reason read magic doesn't need to be prepared from a spellbook is to prevent a character-destroying catch-22 in 3.5. If a wizard did not have read magic prepared, then lost his spellbook, he would no longer be able to prepare any wizard spells ever again if he couldn't prepare read magic "from memory". This is because read magic was required to decipher scrolls and other peoples' spellbooks.
In Pathfinder, you can get around needing read magic with a high enough Spellcraft check, so it's not as vital, but it's retained for backwards compatibility.
Think of it this way.
There's a reason you can't just pick up your spellbook and "read" (cast by reading) Magic Missile out of it all day long. Or any other spell.
You might be brilliant, might have a head the size of a planet, but it still takes time to go through the formulas, the rituals, the gestures and incantations. If it didn't take time, you could just whip your spellbook open to Magic Missile and read it like a permanent scroll, firing your Magic Missiles every round for hours on end, thousands of times, just reading it out of your book.
But the formulas, rituals, gestures, incantations, etc., are too long and complicated to simply do that.
Instead, you spend an hour "pre-casting" those spells. Going through all the motions except the final gesture or two, vocalizing almost the entire incantation - leaving just the last little bit, such a small bit that it can usually be completed in just a part of a melee round.
So that's what you spend your hour doing. Pre-casting all those spells.
Then you walk around with these nearly-finished spells in your head, and when you get in a fight, you pick one and give the finishing gesture and incantation and it goes off.
Read Magic, on the other hand, is barely even a spell. It's just a matter of opening your eyes and mind. A tiny little thing that anyone can prepare without needing to pre-cast it.
Now, please, whatever you do, don't ask me why it it takes any time to prepare Power Word Kill. It's just one word, right? For that matter, why does it take 9 pages in your spellbook or FOUR days to write that word onto a scroll...
Well they way I see it Power word kill is not just one word. It is a complex motion of arcane thought and formula that is contained in the formation of that word. The word is merely the container for the power but not by itself the power
Does anyone even use spell components? It sure doesn't sound like it...
I don't, but I'm just pointing out that even if you could "memorize a spell" you'd still have to measure/prepare the components, at the very least.
Which also, do you need components to cast a spell from a scroll?
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Various odd house rules I've seen on spell preparation;
1) Spells take 5 minutes / spell level to prepare, minus 5 minutes for every spell level over that spell level you can cast (minimum 1 minute). Example: A 9th level Wizard takes 25 minutes to prepare each 5th level spell. Each 4th level spell would have taken him 20 minutes at 8th level, but now only takes him 15 minutes. Each 3rd level spell took 15 minutes at 5th level, 10 minutes at 7th level, and now only takes 5 minutes. Each 2nd level and lower spell takes only 1 minute at this level.
2) Wizards get free Spell Mastery equal to their Intelligence bonus in cabtrips spells. As the Int bonus increases, they can add new cantrips to the list. When the Wizard's permanant Intelligence reaches 20, he gains a second Spell Mastery for 1st level spells. If his permanant (not item or buff-derived) Intelligence reaches 30, he gains a third Spell Mastery for 2nd level spells (and by this point, his Int bonus is +10, so he can prepare 10 cantrips, 10 first level spells and 10 second level spells without a spellbook!). Etc.
Which also, do you need components to cast a spell from a scroll?
Not material components; those are consumed in the creation of the scroll. You do need verbal and somatic components if the spell requires them, however.
Does anyone even use spell components? It sure doesn't sound like it...
I don't, but I'm just pointing out that even if you could "memorize a spell" you'd still have to measure/prepare the components, at the very least.
Which also, do you need components to cast a spell from a scroll?
Yes we require you have the component pouch and for expensive components the items involved.
To not require components actually means the sorcerer's get it rougher, since they have as a class feature a bonus feat that lets them ignore spell component requirements for most their spells... if you let everyone have that bonus feat for free, you might as well give the none spell casters unarmed strike for free, and give the sorcerer's a bonus feat to make up for having a class feature become worthless.
No you don't need the components for a scroll... that's part of what goes into the scroll and why the creator of the scroll has to have the components when he crafts the scroll (and why the components are used up)... please note the same for focuses, except they aren't used up.
(...)
Instead, you spend an hour "pre-casting" those spells. Going through all the motions except the final gesture or two, vocalizing almost the entire incantation - leaving just the last little bit, such a small bit that it can usually be completed in just a part of a melee round.
So that's what you spend your hour doing. Pre-casting all those spells.
Then you walk around with these nearly-finished spells in your head, and when you get in a fight, you pick one and give the finishing gesture and incantation and it goes off.
(...)
The way I red the OP, I thought the rant had more to do with
"why after a long career of preparing Magic Missile should the archmage still have to rely on its spellbook to prepare it"
As opposed to
"why after a long career of preparing Magic Missile should the archmage still have to prepare it"
Where the most natural answer is:" he doesn't have to because the archamge took Spell Mastery and applied it to Magic Missile.
Sometimes in D&D, you have to "pay" with feats or skill points for things to make sense...
(...)
Instead, you spend an hour "pre-casting" those spells. Going through all the motions except the final gesture or two, vocalizing almost the entire incantation - leaving just the last little bit, such a small bit that it can usually be completed in just a part of a melee round.
So that's what you spend your hour doing. Pre-casting all those spells.
Then you walk around with these nearly-finished spells in your head, and when you get in a fight, you pick one and give the finishing gesture and incantation and it goes off.
(...)
The way I red the OP, I thought the rant had more to do with
"why after a long career of preparing Magic Missile should the archmage still have to rely on its spellbook to prepare it"
As opposed to
"why after a long career of preparing Magic Missile should the archmage still have to prepare it"
Where the most natural answer is:" he doesn't have to because the archamge took Spell Mastery and applied it to Magic Missile.
Sometimes in D&D, you have to "pay" with feats or skill points for things to make sense...
Yes, that did seem to be the gist of the OP. And the gist of my response was that even after years of study, all that tricky stuff in the spellbook has to be perfect every time the spell is prepared.
Think of a musician in a band that's been around forever. Metallica. I bet those guys know Enter Sandman right down to every note, frontwards and backwards, and can play it drunk, high, asleep, comatose, all with both hands tied behind their back. Because they've literally played that same song 6,000 times.
But, still, up on stage, someone occasionally strikes a wrong note. No biggy. He's a little chagrinned, and the show goes on.
A wizard who occasionally strikes a wrong note might just blow up in a blaze of glory and cease to exist. The show doesn't go on.
That's the kind of thing you don't risk. You don't trust it to memory. You break out the book and read it word for word, every time, so you get to live another day.
Spells are magic, remember, not actual thoughts. While the text uses words like "study" and "memorize" and "prepare," it's probably better to think of a wizard's brain as a container in which spells are placed or poured. His spellbook is the device that holds his magic spells, and so each morning he pours spells out of his spellbook into his brain, where they sit until used. As the wizard gains levels, his brain gains more containers for more spells, but when he uses them, he has to take the spell OUT of that container. He certainly remembers how it feels to have the spell in there, how to cast the spell, and what it does, but since he's taken the spell itself (which isn't a part of him, any more than a sword is part of a fighter) and used it, he has to go back and replace it by pouring it back into a brain hole from his spellbook.
Mr. Jacobs,
Your philosophy of Pathfinder magic validates my own. What joy to see the captain (or ranking officer at least) of this gaming vessel describe matters so similarly to my own vision.
Can we please see a definitive product for Pathfinder magic that makes this interpretation rich and explicit? Vancian magic products have always danced around the issue as though they were afraid of alienating skill-magic lovers... but Pathfinder is now the sole protector of this tradition.
I am a reformed detractor of Vancian magic myself. My previous error stemmed not from any aesthetic dissonance with how the system should work, but simply from the expectation that it would work as the skill-based systems presented in other games and in popular fiction. Note that the core rules contain no passage remotely resembling the parsing of magic I quoted from you, above.
I would love to see a magic book that cried out "I'm Vancian and I'm proud," with an abundance of Planescape-style metaphysics, talk of dweomers, and the reason magic works as it does in fantasy gaming tradition. I, for one, hold that it is something more than "a poor model of skill-based magic," but a truly alien and magical concept too often criticized for not performing to preconceptions.
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OP: Spell Mastery is what you're after. Depending on your philosophy, you may wish to increase the number of "Mastered" spells. I used to let wizards automatically "master" the spells they gained through leveling alone.