Is a happy ending at all possible with this adventure path? Won't the Red Mantis just keep killing the PCs until they stay dead (or become monarchs)? It's true that they'll have to send higher-level assassins out, but that's the service they've been paid to render, right?
My PCs are just finishing up chapter four and are much more worried about the Red Mantis than they are about Kazavon. They're talking about hitting epic levels and going after Red Mantis administration, because they can't see any other way to survive.
Realistically, they're right. Fortunately for them the Red Mantis continues to send out assassins of low enough level that the PCs can always win, but surely this can't continue forever. At some point the Vernai will get fed up and send in the really good assassins, or just head in themselves. Short of defeating every single Red Mantis alive, can the PCs win? Even then, surely Achaekek would be unhappy to discover that all his worshippers had been killed.
So what's the solution? Will Cities of Golarion give me anything to help with this? I think that what would be the most fun for the players would be to have some brutally difficult side quest, possibly to Mediogalti Island, and then have themselves placed off-limits to Red Mantis assassins in perpetuity. The hitch is that this would have to be believable, and the sooner I can start foreshadowing this the better.
I made Ilizmagorti one of the twenty-one teleport focus paintings recovered from Lord Vardak's fortress in Bloodsworn Vale, just in case I need to send the group there. They haven't identified it yet, but I've given them a description of the place.
Creative Director
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The solution is to defeat the Red Mantis in Pathfinder #12, basically. Remember that the Red Mantis isn't in Korvosa because they were hired to assassinate the PCs; they're there at the behest of Queen Ileosa. The Korvosan chapter of the Mantises DO end up wanting revenge on the PCs, but assuming the PCs defeat Kayltanya in Pathfinder #12, at which point the actual ruling group of the Red Mantis in Ilizmagorti will likely decide to wash their hands of the PCs, realizing they're pretty high level and tough and not worth the resources to keep fighting. If Kayltanya can't handle them, the PCs are free and clear.
Unless, of course, you want to set up an "Against the Red Mantis" sequel to "Crimson Throne," in which case they'd make a great recurring villain organization.
Achaekek himself isn't really a touchy-feely god, and he doesn't really care what happens to the Red Mantis. He's got bigger things to worry about than the PCs, so he's unlikely to care if the PCs do end up killing a lot of the Red Mantises.
I always feel privileged when the Editor in Chief responds to my questions in person. :D Thank-you!
I guess the trick is to make sure that Ileosa never gets so personally annoyed at the PCs that she actually takes out a contract on them then. Since Kayltanya is part of the Vernai she has a lot of resources (and the word of recall makes killing her tricky), but the fact that the rest of the Vernai won't take revenge on the PCs for killing her makes things a lot more survivable!
I'll come up with a way of communicating this information in advance so that it doesn't seem like a handwave when defeating the end boss and her minions magically makes the assassins stop hunting them. :D
Maybe I can still work in a trip to Ilizmagorti in the process. As long as I can postpone the PCs for a couple of months then I can get some good use out of the new book!
Thanks again for the clarification. I was thinking in terms of contract killing and of the Vernai getting revenge on anyone who kills one of their own. This is much better!
Unless, of course, you want to set up an "Against the Red Mantis" sequel to "Crimson Throne," in which case they'd make a great recurring villain organization.
Yes, please. I would pre-order this adventure.
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I'll come up with a way of communicating this information in advance so that it doesn't seem like a handwave when defeating the end boss and her minions magically makes the assassins stop hunting them. :D
Please, do tell us whatever you come up with!
My players shouldn't read this:
I have a rogue in my party who is trying to set up his own gang of thieves (they were mostly killed during the blood veil, however). Growing his own guild of thieves would put him in competition with the Cerulean Society and perhaps I can come up with a way of tying the Korvosan branch of the RMs with the CS so that this PC has to tangle with both.
Is a happy ending at all possible with this adventure path? Won't the Red Mantis just keep killing the PCs until they stay dead (or become monarchs)? It's true that they'll have to send higher-level assassins out, but that's the service they've been paid to render, right?
Why not set up themselves as monarchs of Korvosa and whatever they can reach? By the end of AP PCs should automatically qualify for the throne by the virtue of wiping out the previous government.
Also, "kill them until they run of people" is always an answer.My PCs are just finishing up chapter four and are much more worried about the Red Mantis than they are about Kazavon. They're talking about hitting epic levels and going after Red Mantis administration, because they can't see any other way to survive.
As a side note: this attitude speaks volumes about Golarion's failure to curb overleveled NPC syndrome.
It's always bugged me that a group of assassins who have a rule against killing monarchs due to their religious convictions would be willing to bend that rule. My plan, when I run this AP, is to have Ileosa acquire her poisons from the Cult of Urgathoa, and only gain the service of the Red Mantis after she ascends to the throne. Then, the PCs have the opportunity to find evidence proving she murdered Eodred, and present it to the Mantises so they'll break the contract.