Here's Habro's testbed product for where I expect 5th edition to be pushed in the next few years-
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/15630.html
Whether this is a good or a bad thing, I won't be passing judgement, but between this and Fantasy Flight's announcement of WHFRP 3rd Edition- things are shifting faster then I think anyone expected.
I doubt it. Heroscape has been around for awhile...
I doubt it. Heroscape has been around for awhile...
Oh I know, but combining the two products has been on the cards for a while- as to who will eventually subsume who, time will tell (and yes, I think that will definitely be on the cards).
Oh I know, but combining the two products has been on the cards for a while...
Based on what, exactly?
I always thought WOTC back during the 3e days were dropping the ball by not using more D&D properties in their other ventures.
A D&D Heroscape and a Castle Ravenloft boardgame are great ways to get people's toes dipped into the D&D pool. Just as importantly, as I understand it, Heroscape is a top seller in Toys 'R Us and other chains and having D&D back in non bookstore big chains is a GOOD thing.
This is a win win for the hobby as I see it (especially given that with the recession, Hasbro actually pointed out in their quarterly statement that their revenue from boardgames has actually gone up)
This I could see. Adding D&D to Heroscape might boost sales. Merging the two into a single product, yeah - thats not in the cards.
I'm still waiting for the D&D/Magic combo that was forecast back when WotC bought TSR. I mean, why else would WotC have bought TSR except to make a D&D/Magic combo.
Isn't that 4th Edition plus Power Cards? (semi-serious)
I'm still waiting for the D&D/Magic combo that was forecast back when WotC bought TSR. I mean, why else would WotC have bought TSR except to make a D&D/Magic combo.Isn't that 4th Edition plus Power Cards? (semi-serious)
I think magic influenced the design of 4E in this regards but that is emphatically not the same thing as saying that 4E is a hybrid of Magic+D&D. Its one thing to have X game influence Y game. Thats known, expected and generally a good thing. That said I seriously doubt that the designers looked at Magic Cards and said 'lets incorporate this into D&D somehow. More likely it was something like 'we need simpler spell machinics. I know we'll use a template like a magic card'.
In the end one of the better features of 4E IMO. I love my power cards during play. However there is a problem in that they change every 2nd level - the statistics of your powers are constantly in flux. I bought the actual cards for my Cleric but they don't work because you need to update them to much. Its better to just use a colour printer to print them out every 2nd level and then put them in a magic card sleeve with a scrap magic card as backing.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I'm still waiting for the D&D/Magic combo that was forecast back when WotC bought TSR. I mean, why else would WotC have bought TSR except to make a D&D/Magic combo.Isn't that 4th Edition plus Power Cards? (semi-serious)
You were misled when you were told there's no such thing as a stupid question.
A D&D Heroscape and a Castle Ravenloft boardgame are great ways to get people's toes dipped into the D&D pool. Just as importantly, as I understand it, Heroscape is a top seller in Toys 'R Us and other chains and having D&D back in non bookstore big chains is a GOOD thing.
This is a win win for the hobby as I see it (especially given that with the recession, Hasbro actually pointed out in their quarterly statement that their revenue from boardgames has actually gone up)
That being said, I'm waiting for my copy of the revamped version of the Dungeon! board game. Anyone else remember that one?
Maybe my tinfoil hat is malfunctioning.
That is not what your wife said.
That being said, I'm waiting for my copy of the revamped version of the Dungeon! board game. Anyone else remember that one?Cool game.
I use to play Dungeon! a lot, before I started to understand the rules of the basic D&D box set.
Same here... which is why I think it would make a good intro to RPG concepts for the young'uns.
I always thought WOTC back during the 3e days were dropping the ball by not using more D&D properties in their other ventures.
A D&D Heroscape and a Castle Ravenloft boardgame are great ways to get people's toes dipped into the D&D pool. Just as importantly, as I understand it, Heroscape is a top seller in Toys 'R Us and other chains and having D&D back in non bookstore big chains is a GOOD thing.
This is a win win for the hobby as I see it (especially given that with the recession, Hasbro actually pointed out in their quarterly statement that their revenue from boardgames has actually gone up)
I was shopping with my kids in Toys R Us the other day for a board game, and they had the D&D 4th edition starter set for sale there. I agree this is great for the hobby. When I was a kid I bought quite a few D&D products from the KB Toy store in the mall near where I lived.
I'm still waiting for the D&D/Magic combo that was forecast back when WotC bought TSR. I mean, why else would WotC have bought TSR except to make a D&D/Magic combo.Isn't that 4th Edition plus Power Cards? (semi-serious)Pfft, everyone knows D&D became a CCG back in 2nd Ed, with Spellfire.
For a more serious response, though... yeah, there is absolutely no truth to that claim. Power Cards can (and have) been used in previous editions, and people currently can (and do) play 4E without using them. They are simply an alternate means of tracking resources, no different than a spell-list from earlier editions. They are an innovation on an easy way to organize that information in a very intuitive fashion, which is why many people use them.
But there is no actual CCG influence at hand. They don't change how the game is played. Claiming the presence of power cards makes the game like a CCG is like claiming it is an MMO because someone chooses to print out a character sheet on the computer. There is a brief superficial resemblance from a distance, but it doesn't remotely hold up under any genuine comparison.
This. Thank you - I haven't heard it more succinctly said.
I was shopping with my kids in Toys R Us the other day for a board game, and they had the D&D 4th edition starter set for sale there. I agree this is great for the hobby. When I was a kid I bought quite a few D&D products from the KB Toy store in the mall near where I lived.I always thought WOTC back during the 3e days were dropping the ball by not using more D&D properties in their other ventures.
A D&D Heroscape and a Castle Ravenloft boardgame are great ways to get people's toes dipped into the D&D pool. Just as importantly, as I understand it, Heroscape is a top seller in Toys 'R Us and other chains and having D&D back in non bookstore big chains is a GOOD thing.
This is a win win for the hobby as I see it (especially given that with the recession, Hasbro actually pointed out in their quarterly statement that their revenue from boardgames has actually gone up)
For me it started with the AD&D Coloring Albumn. That lead to the basic set.
This. Thank you - I haven't heard it more succinctly said.I'm still waiting for the D&D/Magic combo that was forecast back when WotC bought TSR. I mean, why else would WotC have bought TSR except to make a D&D/Magic combo.Isn't that 4th Edition plus Power Cards? (semi-serious)Pfft, everyone knows D&D became a CCG back in 2nd Ed, with Spellfire.
For a more serious response, though... yeah, there is absolutely no truth to that claim. Power Cards can (and have) been used in previous editions, and people currently can (and do) play 4E without using them. They are simply an alternate means of tracking resources, no different than a spell-list from earlier editions. They are an innovation on an easy way to organize that information in a very intuitive fashion, which is why many people use them.
But there is no actual CCG influence at hand. They don't change how the game is played. Claiming the presence of power cards makes the game like a CCG is like claiming it is an MMO because someone chooses to print out a character sheet on the computer. There is a brief superficial resemblance from a distance, but it doesn't remotely hold up under any genuine comparison.
Actually, a friend of mine that plays Magic a lot saw more similarity than I did. He equated the selection of powers to "deck building". He pointed out how certain powers could be taken to accomplish certain things, and by "building" a different way, you end up with a different "deck" of powers. <shrug> Didn't really matter to me, as I've never played a CCG, and I don't play 4e enough to really say it's a right or wrong comparison.
That being said, I'm waiting for my copy of the revamped version of the Dungeon! board game. Anyone else remember that one?A D&D Heroscape and a Castle Ravenloft boardgame are great ways to get people's toes dipped into the D&D pool. Just as importantly, as I understand it, Heroscape is a top seller in Toys 'R Us and other chains and having D&D back in non bookstore big chains is a GOOD thing.
This is a win win for the hobby as I see it (especially given that with the recession, Hasbro actually pointed out in their quarterly statement that their revenue from boardgames has actually gone up)
That game was awesome. I really, really, loved it until I got far more experienced playing D&D.
Actually, a friend of mine that plays Magic a lot saw more similarity than I did. He equated the selection of powers to "deck building". He pointed out how certain powers could be taken to accomplish certain things, and by "building" a different way, you end up with a different "deck" of powers. <shrug> Didn't really matter to me, as I've never played a CCG, and I don't play 4e enough to really say it's a right or wrong comparison.
In this regards one could say the same of 3.5. In 3.5 you pick your stats and feats in order to accomplish a 'build' in the same way as in Magic you choose cards to make a deck. Both tend to work on some kind of a theme. This is especially true if you ran a 3.5 spell caster - then you picked spells. Picking spells is a lot like picking powers. What all of these things have in common is picking things.
In truth the only time I see any real comparison is maybe if you start by building a really high level character. A magic deck is a set of choices designed to beat other magic decks using the resources provided by whatever pool of cards one has access to depending upon the rule set your designing for (usually standard).
A D&D character is a small subset of powers, feats and stats. It grows as one gains levels and adds more feats, stat mods and powers.
I remember being utterly amused that I could see black and white line drawings of naked breasts while at Children's Palace (a toy store) back when they had a D&D endcap during the early eighties.
Actually, a friend of mine that plays Magic a lot saw more similarity than I did. He equated the selection of powers to "deck building". He pointed out how certain powers could be taken to accomplish certain things, and by "building" a different way, you end up with a different "deck" of powers. <shrug> Didn't really matter to me, as I've never played a CCG, and I don't play 4e enough to really say it's a right or wrong comparison.In this regards one could say the same of 3.5. In 3.5 you pick your stats and feats in order to accomplish a 'build' in the same way as in Magic you choose cards to make a deck. Both tend to work on some kind of a theme. This is especially true if you ran a 3.5 spell caster - then you picked spells. Picking spells is a lot like picking powers. What all of these things have in common is picking things.
In truth the only time I see any real comparison is maybe if you start by building a really high level character. A magic deck is a set of choices designed to beat other magic decks using the resources provided by whatever pool of cards one has access to depending upon the rule set your designing for (usually standard).
A D&D character is a small subset of powers, feats and stats. It grows as one gains levels and adds more feats, stat mods and powers.
Well, his statement did come up after he built a Level 11 character. But even during the conversation he mentioned a Wizard and how he was selecting spells to use against the days encounters. He views both systems as building a set of resources to overcome certain challenges. It isn't just "choice" in his eyes, it's the collection of resources (deck) used to overcome the opponent (DM/Monsters). Now, his experience also involved the power cards, so maybe that's why he latched on to the similarity. As I said, I don't necessarily agree, I just found it interesting to see it from a CCG players perspective.
Well, his statement did come up after he built a Level 11 character. But even during the conversation he mentioned a Wizard and how he was selecting spells to use against the days encounters. He views both systems as building a set of resources to overcome certain challenges. It isn't just "choice" in his eyes, it's the collection of resources (deck) used to overcome the opponent (DM/Monsters). Now, his experience also involved the power cards, so maybe that's why he latched on to the similarity. As I said, I don't necessarily agree, I just found it interesting to see it from a CCG players perspective.
I'd say, if anything 4E has moved further from Magic then older editions of Dungeons and Dragons. Magic is a game about high level wizards dueling and its core inspiration would seem to be 1st edition Wizard characters. You could actually get something almost akin to a Magic game by having a couple of old time high level wizards engage in a duel in D&D. Each wizard would take turns firing off a spell in such a scenario. It'd not be the same of course but there sure would be some pretty marked similarities.
Those similarities are a lot weaker in 4E where wizards have a lot less spells then has historically been the case in D&D and what 4E wizard spells do is much more constrained. Summoning creatures (a big part of any Magic game), for example, is no longer something that wizards really do - thats the domain of a different class.
Didn't I once see a thread which proposed using a series of cards to drive the adventure/game in a DM-less system of gaming ??
Maybe that was on wizards. I could also be dreaming again.
Actually, a good idea for 5e would be not using dice to play. A series of cards drawn from your current *hand* would work. Plus, you could augment your powers with various card effects.
Maybe we should patent this idea, and test it for 4e. Then, I could play D&D by myself in my jail cell.
oops, did I say that out loud
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Actually, a good idea for 5e would be not using dice to play. A series of cards drawn from your current *hand* would work. Plus, you could augment your powers with various card effects.
Maybe we should patent this idea, and test it for 4e. Then, I could play D&D by myself in my jail cell.
oops, did I say that out loud
Saga?
Actually, I can see a lot of mileage in an analogy between assembling a Magic: The Gathering deck from the toolkit of cards available in a particular environment with the goal to win in a particular manner, and assembling a 4E character from a toolkit of powers and other options available to carry out a particular party role. And I would say that the simplification of D&D between 3.5 and 4E has moved the games TOWARDS one another in the sense of deck-building/character building analogies.
But so what? That just means that a particular type of player may find it more rewarding and easier to design and build a 4E character...
This just brings me back to comparing 3.5 to 4E to Magic again. From this perspective I don't see how 4E is any different at all to 3.5 in terms of character creation. Character optimization forums look very similar between the editions and there is not a ton of difference at the meta game level.
Essentially 4E has this resource - powers. This resource replaces some other resources we saw in 3.5, spells for spell casting classes and fighter feats for the fighter class.
In essence if you thought building a fighter (or wizard or cleric) in 3.5 was akin to building a magic deck then you'll still feel the same way in 4E. If you don't think building a cleric (or fighter or wizard) is akin to building a magic deck in 3.5 then its not in 4E.
I still feel the closest one can get to magic in D&D is if you and your friend each agree to build a high level wizard in 1st-3rd edition and fight mano a mano.
The simplification of 4E does not duplicate magic deck building. The key to magic deck building is choosing your spells (thats an official in game term btw - your cards are your spells). In standard (the most popular format) your choosing from about 600 different spells so a huge amount of choice is inherent in the system. Furthermore in other formats the amount of choice just gets larger - maybe 5000 spells are available in extended and more then 10,000 in vintage. Building a magic deck - fundamentally - is all about choosing 40 cards from a huge list of options. Thats akin to choosing ones spells for a high level caster in 1st - intentionally so since that'd be the source of the games inspiration. The further we get from an activity that is like choosing spells for a high level caster in 1st the less similar to deck building things become.
So, bringing things full circle, if you believe that making a character in 4E is more akin to building a high level 1st edition mage then other editions then this edition is closer to Magic, otherwise its not.