After reading through many of the complaints about Spiked Chain and Reach, since it made for a very powerful combination under the old rules, I've come to the conclusion that nerfing it was indeed a mistake for the following reasons:
1. Improved Trip or Disarm is now a +2 bonus and not +4.
2. No "Two Handed" weapon bonus of +4 to Disarm
3. Large Size provides a +1 bonus and not +4.
These three changes more than compensated for the overstrenghted nature of the Spike Chain Combat Manuever combos that some players disliked, even though many players enjoyed using the Spike Chain to create a 'specialist class'. It also took away the 'threat' that PC's might encounter from an NPC who weilded it.
Therefore my conclusion is that nerfing the spiked chain was a extra step that made what many considered a broken weapon (because of the feats associated with it) completely unecessary as many of the problems that made it broken were eliminated when the feats and size modifiers were changed.
Do you disagree with my conclusion (or have a different spin on it), and why
I have a player interested in using a spiked chain. What would you suggest for the build?
Is combat reflexes still useful?
Tripping is harder, but is it still usable?
I can't remember anyone ever using a spiked chain before 3.X. If it gets relegated back to the shelf of "exotic weapons you will seldom see," I think that's a good change.
Honestly, most of the weapons should do roughly the same damage and be swapped around for color and sense.
Is combat reflexes still useful?
Tripping is harder, but is it still usable?
Combat Reflexes is VERY useful, but a Spiked Chain no longer has reach.
Tripping is useful when you have several party members nearby who can get AoO's when he tries to stand up.
Greater Trip returns the Spiked Chain to notoriety, by allowing everyone adjacent to the target a free attack when you successfully trip them.
By making it a non-reach weapon, it balances that nicety a bit imho.
surely a reach weapon doesnt make greater trip broken?
- just make reach weapons add 5' not double reach, this stops the large size reach problem. Does anyone see a mechanical problem with this suggestion?
Yes, because we all know the spiked chain was part of the perfect combo
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Greater Trip returns the Spiked Chain to notoriety, by allowing everyone adjacent to the target a free attack when you successfully trip them.
By making it a non-reach weapon, it balances that nicety a bit imho.
surely a reach weapon doesnt make greater trip broken?
- just make reach weapons add 5' not double reach, this stops the large size reach problem. Does anyone see a mechanical problem with this suggestion?
Yes, because if you had 5' reach farther than normal, you are not inherently in danger of being attacked. This I have a problem with, as you cannot effectively be attacked with a reach weapon that hits close and far. You'll just trip them up when they attempt to leave a square you threaten.
Yes, because if you had 5' reach farther than normal, you are not inherently in danger of being attacked. This I have a problem with, as you cannot effectively be attacked with a reach weapon that hits close and far. You'll just trip them up when they attempt to leave a square you threaten.Greater Trip returns the Spiked Chain to notoriety, by allowing everyone adjacent to the target a free attack when you successfully trip them.
By making it a non-reach weapon, it balances that nicety a bit imho.
surely a reach weapon doesnt make greater trip broken?
- just make reach weapons add 5' not double reach, this stops the large size reach problem. Does anyone see a mechanical problem with this suggestion?
are you answering my question about the greater reach feat? does this mean someone with unarmed attack and a guisarme is similarly broken?
If you were talking about the +5' from a reach weapon rather than double this was my way of toning down the reach of a large reach weapon (from 20' to 15')
does the current CMD (which includes deflection and dodge bonuses amongst others) give you any comfort?