Hi everyone i have been reading the 3.5 message board on paizo for some time now. My room mate has a profile on here " Deathedge" some of you may know him. Anyway i just made a profile and this is my first post.
Deathedge and i have been involved in a home brew party for some time know. We have gone from 1-18, originally it was our only party and all the characters were races out of the players handbook. After playing for awhile our Dm's brother decided he wanted to start running a evil pary made up of mostly all monster char. While our " good" party is one of the most fun campaigns Ive ever played the evil one lacks story and the Dm just showers us with magic items. He lacks any respect for what D&D can really be, and Now it seems that our good party is going to fight our evil one in a kind of final fight before we fight the main villain and wrap the campaign up.
I play an 13/5th level druid /hierophant. Now i know that when the fight begins the guy who is the evil party Dm. Is going to come right after me with his lich mystic theurge i believe he is considered a 7th lvl wizard 7th lvl cleric then the four lvls from being lich, and who knows how many high lvl magic items he has given him.
I have a few ideas how to take him down but if anyone could lend an idea or two, the help would be much appreciated
Of the top of my head...
Cast changestaff to make you staff a treant and have it head over and grapple his little undead behind. His paralysis touch won't work against a plant so you don't need to worry about it.
After that you can waltz up and drop a heal spell or two on his little undead behind (your CL is 18, so you are doing 150 dmg with each casting... I doubt he could take two of those).
If he dimension doors out of the grapple (he can't do it often... 4th is his highest level spell) then summon in a greater elemental and have it grapple him as well. (the treant can pummel him once it gets to his new spot while the elemental holds him).
That is all just with spells from the core books... not sure what all is allowed or what capabilities you really have.
He really gimped his spell casting by taking a template and a thuerge class, so he can only cast 4th level spells in both classes... this is now his downfall... he shouldn't be too tough for you as long as you don't let him fight in a way that is optimal for him.
Sean Mahoney
Yea i was thinking along the lines of a heal spell. also i will have to look it up but if i have deathward cast i believe that would protect me from his paralyzing touch
Scratch that i thought for a second that his paralyzing touch was a negative energy attack but its not
Yea i was thinking along the lines of a heal spell. also i will have to look it up but if i have deathward cast i believe that would protect me from his paralyzing touch
Nah, freedom of movement stops the paralysis ... if his BAB of +8 can even hit your touch AC. Heal is melee touch (normally) - once your 'ent has his bony butt pinned down, see if you can find his phylactery. If he is so dumb as to be carrying the thing, target it with a disintegrate or two and call it a day. If not - and you have his name - you can always mop up later via discern location.
If you just want to be rid of him for a short while, pop a Maze on him and send him packing. A black tentacles can also serve to immobilize him. Have a few hirelings with vials of holy water wash his bones into sludge while you're wiping out the rest of the baddies.
Oh, and open things up with a Disjunction at maximum range (45 feet or longer to the targeted grid point on the tactical map) to hack off the Monty Haul 'toons.
well being a 5th lvl Hierophant i have the divine reach ability allowing me to cast touch spells at thirty feet . i wish i had disintegrate and maze and all that other stuff but sadly the druid doesn't get those spells :-)
You might want to check your spell list for spells that lack SR. I think the Fireseed spell might. Just be sure to hit the lich with a Greater Dispel Magic to erase his fire resistance spells.
Also, you might want to summon 2 nasties at once, one to grapple and one to ready an action to attack the lich when he casts, so he can't Dimension Door out without making a huge Concentration check. Do you have Summon Nature's Ally 9? the Celestial Charger (unicorn with cleric levels) can be a nice ally against undead....especially if it readies to charge with a heal spell on its horn.....
Hiya.
Get the fighter to Grapple with him; then everyone else bash on his skull with some heavy object.
Seriously. If you try and go "toe-to-toe" with him in regards to using magic and 'normal' fighting, you'll have a rough time...but just prey on his weaknesses (re: low'ish hp, AC and Str/BAB), and he'll be toast. It's not very heroic, nor 'climactic', but it's better than being dead. :)
^_^
Paul L. Ming
The fighter AND barbarian/frenzied berserker are going to have their hands full with the ogre fighter/war hulk, and POSSIBLY a certain dragonkin barbarian. The rogue/swashbuckler/shadowdancer is going to have his hands full with the psychic warrior/elocator alu-fiend . The paladin/devoted defender is going to have his hands full with the vampire fighter/wizard/spellsword (or whatever I choose to finally make him!). Sounds like your druid/heirophant is gonna take on the lich wizard/cleric/mystic theurge one-on-one. Notice anything?
That leaves our elven wizard/archmage, arguably the most powerful person in the whole party, with nothing to do! And personally I think you and she could possibly take out the entire evil party by yourselves, ESPECIALLY if we get the jump on them. I think the evil party might NEED to have my yuan-ti favored soul there, just to have a chance!
Man, that sounds like a really epic battle when it's all typed out like that! :D
Oh yeah, and I seem to have forgotten about CJ's werebear barbarian/frenzied berserker. Unless he can fly, I'm not too worried about him though.
I am still going to be banking on the heal/flame strike combination just to take him down as fast as i can so that away i can move on to helping the rest of the party. if i need to grapple him i think i will use the elemental monolith spell out of the spell compendium. i think a colossal earth elemental should not have a problem grappling him.
Thanks for the grapple idea!! i had not thought of that yet
With a druid 13/heirophant 5 you can only cast up to level 7 spells since the PrC does not advance spell casting (just caster level), unless there was something houseruled. That is why I capped my suggestions there. Also not sure what sources you use so I try to stay core... looking at the other player though it looks like you have even more options.
Sean Mahoney
Keep in mind that your groups best chance in this fight is to loose the 1-on-1 mentality. If each of you goes after your counterpart in the other group you stand a much higher chance of dying. Instead you want to work as a group.
In general you want your caster to use various battlefield control spells right off the bat to isolate a member of their group that your melee types can then gang up on and pound into oblivion. Preferably this would be a healer or caster, but it is often easier to catch a melee type alone... so be it... point is to delay everyone on their team but this guy and then have multiple people taking that one person down... won't stand much of chance. Rinse and repeat with the next guy.
Grapples and things that block line of site and slow down the opponents tend to be the best way to go about this. Solid Fog, walls, etc. Summoned critters for grappling... you get the idea. You are just looking at one action of your slowing down and wasting multiple actions from them. This gives you economy of action and that is what controls a successful battle.
Sean Mahoney
I am still going to be banking on the heal/flame strike combination just to take him down as fast as i can so that away i can move on to helping the rest of the party. if i need to grapple him i think i will use the elemental monolith spell out of the spell compendium. i think a colossal earth elemental should not have a problem grappling him.
Thanks for the grapple idea!! i had not thought of that yet
I think that's duration of concentration, so you can't do much else while maintaining that (like bringing on the hurt via heal spells).
Sean Mahoney's got a lot of good advice in this thread. Teamwork wins fights, particularly if your opponents aren't using it.
We allow just about all the 3.5 books that Wizards put out. we like to have the options to create any type of character we want. also we had house ruled awhile back that since the hirophant is basically kind of a divine version of the archmage that the hirophant should gain +1 to existing spell class just like the archmage
I think you may be right that thinking more along the lines of controlling the battle more then one on one fights is a good idea. being a druid i have a lot of spells that could help. for instance the counter moon spell out of SC will really mess over the other teams werebear one of there two heaviest hitters. Allowing for our melee guys to chop him down quick
I am still going to be banking on the heal/flame strike combination just to take him down as fast as i can so that away i can move on to helping the rest of the party. if i need to grapple him i think i will use the elemental monolith spell out of the spell compendium. i think a colossal earth elemental should not have a problem grappling him.
Thanks for the grapple idea!! i had not thought of that yet
I think that's duration of concentration, so you can't do much else while maintaining that (like bringing on the hurt via heal spells).
Sean Mahoney's got a lot of good advice in this thread. Teamwork wins fights, particularly if your opponents aren't using it.
The person i was going to hit with the heal spell is a lich so i figured him being undead that heal will do some massive damage to him, with such low hp after that one of my other party members will be able to finish him off. In doing this it takes away most of the evil party's arcane magic and ALL of there divine magic I.e no more healing for them
Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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Hey! Don't hurt the lich! Us liches are good folks at heart. So what if we need a little death and destruction once in a while? Who cares if we need to crumble a civilization or two to ensure our own immortality? You don't see us running around killing adventuring parties (unless they try to interfere with our plans for world domination).
All this talk of killing liches is making me paranoid...Can't we all just get along (and let the liches have their way)?
I hear ya, Larry. But imagine MY conflicted feelings...I play the rogue in the good party as well as the vampire AND the yuan-ti in the evil party! Talk about roleplaying! I want the good party to win! But I want the evil party to win! But I want the good party to win! But...I.....want......
*thud*
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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I hear ya, Larry. But imagine MY conflicted feelings...I play the rogue in the good party as well as the vampire AND the yuan-ti in the evil party! Talk about roleplaying! I want the good party to win! But I want the evil party to win! But I want the good party to win! But...I.....want......
*thud*
If you would just do what the lich wants, all of these conflicted feelings would go away...