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Well, my party started off The Champions Belt with a bang this past Saturday!
They allied with Arcane Auriga and together took out Badland's Revenge and Sapphire Squad in less than 3 rounds. One of the reasons they are tearing things up so easy is they rarely fail saves anymore, due to smart buffing with Recitation coupled with Mass Conviction. Together these give the entire party either +5 or +6 to saves depending on who they worship as a patron deity. The other advantage this party seems to have is the beguiler. Is there any base class that is more broken than this one? (Don't answer that; I'm sure there is!)/ Of course, once the undead become the primary antagonists later in the path, the beguiler will find himself less useful, so that is some comfort.
I don't dislike Recitation so much as it has a 1/round a level limit, but Mass Conviction is crazy at 10/min a level (and it slides based on level just like Shield of Faith).
To combat this for Round Two, I made some changes to Pitch Blade. I left the two statted barbarians as is; I think their sundering ability is going to tick off the fighter and the ranger. Remember, the only two things worse than death to a PC is level loss and item destruction. They do love their toys! But I still thought that my party of 6 PCs would take the 2 dwarves out in a couple of rounds as it was written. So I added a third dwarf and made him a warblade (flanking specialist). I don't want to wipe the party, but I do want the battle to last a good 6-8 rounds (and maybe long enough for the recitation to wear off!)
Just wondered if anyone else has run into this particular spell combo (or others) that make supposedly tough battles into pushovers.
I've run into this spell combo in my Shackled City campaign. Strangely enough it hasn't become a huge game-breaking issue. The two ways I've been dealing with it is dispel magic and having multiple encounters that occur far apart.
Good thinking. I've been having similar troubles with saving throws given Magic Circle vs. Evil, Mass Conviction, and Recitation. *shudder* It makes the party ferociously hard to affect with saveable spells.
Should be interesting in Champions' Belt to see what happens when they come up against my wormpriest -- an eldritch disciple cleric/warlock with lots of summons and Voracious Dispelling. *grin*
Don't let PCs walk around with 10 min/lvl buffs for encounter after encounter!!!
Either delay them so they wear off or hit them with dispels.
Then prepare your baddies to go on the offensive if/when the PCs decide to rest after a couple hours of adventuring. Keep the pressure up.
In the Hall of Harsh Reflections my group of PCs tried (and failed) three times to complete the mind flayer lair. The drow organized their defenses and effectively countered the PC incursions.
By the third attempt the PCs had defeated all of the drow except their leader but were then wiped out by a combined attack by the mind flayer and the drow priestess. It went right down to the wire.
The PCs were rescued by Auric's Warband (setting up some sour grapes during the Champion's Belt adventure) and raised by allies (the elven family of the aristocrat they rescued earlier on at Sodden Hold).
So in the end they failed to complete HoHR and learned (the hard way) that they can't just blow all their buffs upfront then withdraw and rest after 1-2 encounters. The enemy takes countermeasures that make the subsequent battles even harder.
They're falling back into their old ways so it's probably time for a refresher course. ;-)
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This may be old-fashioned, but if the spell seems too powerful (and conviction is), change the level, change the duration, or drop it from your game. Unfettered access to the Spell Compendium really shifts the balance in the game.
Well, the SC is certainly more 'broken' than the PH, but I also am using the ole goose/gander philosophy. Since Pitch Blade is Okoral's team, he will have a couple buffs cast on his team. The party wiz has the Fiery Burst reserve feat from the Complete Mage (or is it Arcane?); but the baddies in this adventure have already seen the PCs in action from the previous round (plus forensic evidence from Zyrxog's lair post-PC). So Pitch Blade will have Resist Elements (fire) in effect, plus a Mass Conviction of their own. This should limit the effectiveness of the fire-specced wizzy and the annoying enchantment spells of the &*#$ beguiler. Add in the Improved Sunder of the two barbarians and it could end up being a long day for the party.
Of course, I am at war with myself with the old quandary. You as DM are supposed to make the game challenging for the players, but it's easy to fall into the 'chess-match' mentality. The bad guys aren't supposed to win, just make the PCs life more difficult. Sometimes I feel like I am punishing my players for being good players and building strong and smart characters. There is such a fine line between challenging them and competing with them. I actually find myself rooting for the monsters a lot of the time; I put a lot of work into them and the monsters don't know the match is 'fixed' in favor of the players.
So I often get into arguments with my wife (who runs the cleric and the healer). She says she doesn't want it to EVER be challenging and that she would like it to be a cakewalk every time. I, of course, argue that the other players would quickly grow tired of such a game. Who knows? Maybe I am too old school?
So I often get into arguments with my wife (who runs the cleric and the healer). She says she doesn't want it to EVER be challenging and that she would like it to be a cakewalk every time. I, of course, argue that the other players would quickly grow tired of such a game. Who knows? Maybe I am too old school?
Naaaaah. For me, when I'm a player rather than a DM, I love a challenging combat. It means we, as players, are tested by adversity and the unusual. I go into it with the theory that I worked hard to create an effective and fun character, and if the battle's a cakewalk I feel bored by the game. More challenge, where the players actually feel threatened and pushed to their limits (and occasionally beyond!) is definitely a good thing.