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The Drowned (v.3.5 MMIII) are particularly nasty with their drowning aura. I was playing Pathfinder Role-playing game with a homebrew adventure. Can the creature use its aura continuously each round, causing all within 30' to need to hold their breath? This caused much mayhem last night, and resulted in the lead character's unexpected death. In the first round of a failed con check - hit points go to zero; in the second round the PC moves to -1, in the next round the PC is drowned.
As a good DM, I do all the math a few times before I declare a PC dead. Time of death was around 9pm. I checked the Pathfinder Beta rules on drowning and it seemed both consistent with v.3.5 and clear. Anyone approaching the Drowned within 30' entered the creatures Drowning Aura. Gee, I hope that aura wasn't supposed to cost a standard action—because at least once the Drowned slammed the PC of note twice as a full round action, plus I required a con check due to the radius of the aura.
I am okay saying that this was a "special" creature, and the scene played out marvelously - very cinematic with the creature smashing the ships wheel, smashing crew members, the halfling attempting to push it over but instead sliding down it... overall - the evening was priceless, and nobody argues the call. I'd like to hear your ideas. Thoughts?
I can't speak about this particular monster, but I've found that drowning/suffocating isn't usually a big danger in 3.5 because of the long time that PCs can hold their breath (# of rounds = Con score). Did this fight last particularly long?
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I can't speak about this particular monster, but I've found that drowning/suffocating isn't usually a big danger in 3.5 because of the long time that PCs can hold their breath (# of rounds = Con score). Did this fight last particularly long?
I agree, Hogarth. Had the PC been able to hold their breath - they would have been able to do so for a very long time, something like 2XCON. With this particular foe, UNLESS the PC can pass a DC10 Con check, the PC is unable to hold their breath, and the drowning process begins, for each subsequent round, the drowning rules apply as mentioned above... from zero, to -1, then death on round three. Again, we had PCs who made their Con checks and did battle, ultimately slaying the formidable creature. But alas, the clerics Con was low (and in without a bonus) and the progressive DC goes from 10 up to 11 then 12 etc., on subsequent rounds.
...that really was a compelling battle, and a great creature to run in a game.
My two cents: it's a continuous aura, and it doesn't have to be activated each round.
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My two cents: it's a continuous aura, and it doesn't have to be activated each round.
Gonna say I agree with this.
As a rule, when it comes to auras, unless it says it has to be activated on a round-by-round basis, it's an ongoing effect (they're treated as emanations (a silence spell is an emanation, for example)). Even if they did have to engage it each round, it'd likely be a free (or move; I can never remember) action to do so.
And I can vouch for drowned being nasty (they've gotten a PC or two of mine :D); ability checks, even with decent ability scores, can be incredibly dangerous at even low DCs.
I also concur. A continuous aura that does not need to be activated because it is continous and thus does not require activation, due to its continous nature.
Don't you love run-on sentences?
I've used them too, but one of my PCs is an aquatic elf druid, so she was fine.
OK, 10 Con = 20 rounds = 2 full minutes, impossible for most average people IRL, but OK in a fantasy game. But that's holding your breath and not doing much else. Try holding your breath for two minutes while dodging blows and Power Attacking someone, and see how easy that is! And how do you cast spells with Verbal components if you can't take a breath? Some adjudication and/or explanation is in line, when using this particular critter.
Why would somatic components be a problem when you're holding your breath?
Why would somatic components be a problem when you're holding your breath?
Well, you'd be waving your arms around, and get out of breath, and... post fixed above. Thanks.
I do believe there is a rule lying around somewhere that if you take a standard or full-round action while holding your breath, that round counts double. In other words, if you're fighting and such every round while holding your breath, you can only hold it for a number of rounds equal to your Constitution. Of course, that's just until you start having to make ability checks, but those get steep pretty fast.
I do believe there is a rule lying around somewhere that if you take a standard or full-round action while holding your breath, that round counts double. In other words, if you're fighting and such every round while holding your breath, you can only hold it for a number of rounds equal to your Constitution. Of course, that's just until you start having to make ability checks, but those get steep pretty fast.
Too true, too true.
And if it was life or death, most people with 10 Con could hold their breath for 2 minutes if they don't panic and wig out.
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I do believe there is a rule lying around somewhere that if you take a standard or full-round action while holding your breath, that round counts double. In other words, if you're fighting and such every round while holding your breath, you can only hold it for a number of rounds equal to your Constitution. Of course, that's just until you start having to make ability checks, but those get steep pretty fast.
Thanks Saern. This actually sounds familiar. And, the idea that combat is a bit strenuous makes this a bit more "realistic". Does anyone remember where this might be referenced? v.3.5 core or supplement page number, please?
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... Of course, that's just until you start having to make ability checks, but those get steep pretty fast.Too true, too true.
And if it was life or death, most people with 10 Con could hold their breath for 2 minutes if they don't panic and wig out.
And—there was the other factor that played in!!! The Con check was progressive. For those that may not know... the check increases by 1 each round.
Again, one hell of a fight. And, a very interesting creature to run in a game, imo.
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HOGARTH-GENE-SMILO et.al. - - - thanks.
Looks like we have a quarum that everything progressed as it should have.
As you might agree, over the years, over the years game masters get better and better, assuring that PC deaths are what I call... "validated." This just means that I do a bit of a "post-mortem", hehe, pun intended I guess, and follow the path of combat to see that what happened, happened fairly. (I don't necessarily involve the players for various reasons, but prefer checking-in with third parties such as YOU.) I have so few PC deaths in my game, and I will double-check and triple check math in the case of potential PC deaths.
That is, I will ensure there aren't any +1s floating around before I declare a PC dead. As a player myself, there is nothing more frustrating than feeling like a PC death was mishandled. Again, the GM always has the final say, but I really appreciate it when the GM handles PC deaths with the respect they deserve.
Thanks everyone, for some peer validation.
Drowned - heh, what a creature~!
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...And how do you cast spells with Verbal components if you can't take a breath?And I must add, watching the faces of the players when they realized NO spells with verbal components would be allowed was... well, priceless!
That's why the original version of the Druid spell "Miasma" from 3rd ed was so broken too. It filled an opponent's throat with poison gas, so save. Your options were: hold your breath (aka no casting, eventually make suffocation checks) or try to breathe (fall to ground coughing and choking, no other actions).
Either way, the enemy spellcaster was DONE for the battle. For a measley 5th lvl druid spell. Thankfully they altered it for 3.5 - I forget how offhand, but it's still pretty brutal.
Does anyone remember where this might be referenced? v.3.5 core or supplement page number, please?[The d20 SRD]If you are underwater, either because you failed a Swim check or because you are swimming underwater intentionally, you must hold your breath. You can hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to twice your Constitution score, but only if you do nothing other than take move actions or free actions. If you take a standard action or a full-round action (such as making an attack), the remainder of the duration for which you can hold your breath is reduced by 1 round. (Effectively, a character in combat can hold his or her breath only half as long as normal.) After that period of time, you must make a DC 10 Constitution check every round to continue holding your breath. Each round, the DC for that check increases by 1. If you fail the Constitution check, you begin to drown.
The weird thing about this is that, as per the RAW, swimming and walking are both move actions. In other words, for the purposes of holding one's breath, it is no more difficult to do so while swimming than walking or standing perfectly still.
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Does anyone remember where this might be referenced? v.3.5 core or supplement page number, please?[The d20 SRD]If you are underwater, either because you failed a Swim check or because you are swimming underwater intentionally, you must hold your breath. You can hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to twice your Constitution score, but only if you do nothing other than take move actions or free actions. If you take a standard action or a full-round action (such as making an attack), the remainder of the duration for which you can hold your breath is reduced by 1 round. (Effectively, a character in combat can hold his or her breath only half as long as normal.) After that period of time, you must make a DC 10 Constitution check every round to continue holding your breath. Each round, the DC for that check increases by 1. If you fail the Constitution check, you begin to drown.
The weird thing about this is that, as per the RAW, swimming and walking are both move actions. In other words, for the purposes of holding one's breath, it is no more difficult to do so while swimming than walking or standing perfectly still.
Marvelous, Saern. Manythanks!
Also, I don't envision swimming here like Michael Phelps. I kind of see light swim movement through water, with only a little more exertion than is required with walking. But yeah, I do also notice that the description involves no more necessary difficulty.
As an aside: I guess with Pathfinder, swim will still be swim in the final August version? Does anyone know? Or has anyone heard about groupings with acrobatics, or the creation of an athletics skill-bucket as so many have suggested?