In the description of the Ring of Sustenance it states "The ring also refreshes the body and mind, so that its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefits of 8 hours of sleep"
Does this mean that as a Wizard or Sorcerer I would only need to sleep 2 hours to begin regaining my spells?
Does this mean that as a Wizard or Sorcerer I would only need to sleep 2 hours to begin regaining my spells?
No.
From the SRD:
"If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, she still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells."
So in this case it would just mean that they only need 2 hours sleep then need to chill out for a while.
It would be a decent way to get someone on guard duty and not have to worry about shifts as much.
Sean Mahoney
I would think that if they don't need to sleep, and only need rest, that the ring would reduce that to only 2 hours. Making wizard full sleep and prep time, no matter the race to only 3 hours.
Would this be game breaking really?
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Technically elves only need to meditate for 4 hours a night as well, but the quoted SRD text above has always implied to me that they still need to relax for the additional 4 hours as well to get the full benefit of spell recovery.
I do think this has the potential to be game breaking in some ways, at least alongside the use of other spells. Obviously it would be important to strongly enforce the 'only prep spells once in a 24 hour period' rule if you allowed this, but it makes spells such as rope trick and such useful at a much earlier point. Having a 3rd level scroll of rope trick mean that you can rest and prep all your spells is a pretty potent thing.
I would think that if they don't need to sleep, and only need rest, that the ring would reduce that to only 2 hours. Making wizard full sleep and prep time, no matter the race to only 3 hours.
Would this be game breaking really?
It is an interesting question. My first reaction was to say, 'no, not really.' But the more I think about it the more I think that it could be an issue.
Groups right now already "suffer" from a 5-minute adventure day in many cases when the spell casters blow through all their spells in a dungeon fairly quickly, retreat and rest, then head right back in. Since the game play of sleeping for 8 hours and sleeping for 2 hours are identical, I really don't see an issue with this from a game breaking point of view.
Then the min/maxing part of my brain kicked in and said, how can I use this to my advantage? Well, if I am a third level caster, my mage armor is now basically a 24 hour spell. I adventure for 1 hour, rest for 2, recast and head on out again. Even if I get woken up in the middle my defense is still active.
Extended spell and Persistent Spell metamagic feats would take on a much less useful role (well, I guess extended spell would basically make those 10 min/lvl spells all day durations fairly quickly as well)
Another interesting rule to note here from the SRD is:
"If a wizard has cast spells recently, the drain on her resources reduces her capacity to prepare new spells. When she prepares spells for the coming day, all the spells she has cast within the last 8 hours count against her daily limit."
This would preclude the 'adventure for one hour, rest for two" scenario as well.
So... Can you think of ways to abuse this? Do wizards/sorcerers really need something that makes them that much more powerful? Do you think this change would just make low level casters (where most people consider them weak) more powerful and be ignored by the higher level ones (where they tend to dominate play)?
Sean Mahoney
Technically elves only need to meditate for 4 hours a night as well, but the quoted SRD text above has always implied to me that they still need to relax for the additional 4 hours as well to get the full benefit of spell recovery.
I think you are 100% right in your interpretation (which begs the question of why even have the elves need only 4 hours sleep... flavor I guess).
Sean Mahoney
I would think that if they don't need to sleep, and only need rest, that the ring would reduce that to only 2 hours. Making wizard full sleep and prep time, no matter the race to only 3 hours.
Would this be game breaking really?
Absolutely, this isnt Neverwinter nights, 1 click rest for full spells anytime you want.
Do you really consider it acceptable for a Wizard to bypass the limitations of having to preplanned spells ahead of time, to take the sorcerers only decent ability of changing spells often for a mere 2,500 gold?
That has more to do with sorcerers sucking, than RAW.
My point here is this.
"If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, she still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells."
The Ring does not eliminate the ability to normally rest and sleep, where this stipulation clearly states it applies if they do not need to sleep, it only reduces it down to 2 hours.
The Ring does not eliminate the ability to normally rest and sleep, where this stipulation clearly states it applies if they do not need to sleep, it only reduces it down to 2 hours.
Hrmm... an interesting interpretation.
The full quote says, "To prepare her daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but she must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If her rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time she has to rest in order to clear her mind, and she must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing her spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, she still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells."
Emphasis is mine.
I apologize for not including the full link previously, but I didn't see the initial quote I posted in the same light that you did.
The second sentence indicates that it is not specifically the sleep that matters for the preparation.
The ring's description in the SRD states:
"This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind, so that its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself."
Now one could legitimately argue that the ability to rememorize spells is indeed exactly what the benefit of 8 hours of sleep is. However, since the rest description indicates that it isn't actually sleep that matters then getting the benefits of sleep would not include the ability to rememorize spells.
At least by RAW. I think the more interesting question was indeed 'Would this break anything?'
Sean Mahoney
The Ring does not eliminate the ability to normally rest and sleep, where this stipulation clearly states it applies if they do not need to sleep, it only reduces it down to 2 hours.Hrmm... an interesting interpretation.
The full quote says, "To prepare her daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but she must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If her rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time she has to rest in order to clear her mind, and she must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing her spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, she still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells."
Emphasis is mine.
I apologize for not including the full link previously, but I didn't see the initial quote I posted in the same light that you did.
The second sentence indicates that it is not specifically the sleep that matters for the preparation.
The ring's description in the SRD states:
"This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind, so that its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself."Now one could legitimately argue that the ability to rememorize spells is indeed exactly what the benefit of 8 hours of sleep is. However, since the rest description indicates that it isn't actually sleep that matters then getting the benefits of sleep would not include the ability to rememorize spells.
At least by RAW. I think the more interesting...
Good point. I agree, I was wrong.
I would think that if they don't need to sleep, and only need rest, that the ring would reduce that to only 2 hours. Making wizard full sleep and prep time, no matter the race to only 3 hours.
Would this be game breaking really?
Absolutely, this isnt Neverwinter nights, 1 click rest for full spells anytime you want.
Can't tell you how many times I've uttered very nearly these exact words. "This isn't Neverwinter Nights. You can't just squat down in the middle of the street and get your spells back" is actually how I think I usually put it.