Ok. The situation is this: Ive been on the hunt for a perfect rpg ruleset for my tastes and have thus far been kinda unsuccessful. Ive GMed AD&D, 3.5, 4E, D6 Fantasy, Epic RPG, True 20, and I just recently purchased Ars Magica but the game isnt just doing it for me. Maybe Im just falling out of gaming but i certainly hope not. Anyway Im about to deploy to the middle east and much to my rpg-hating wife's delight am getting rid of my games. While deployed I want to order an rpg to keep me busy over there, something I havent yet tried, and I want to spend my year learning the ruleset and designing a detailed campaign setting. There are some things Im looking for that in my extensive searching have yet to find:
I want a ruleset without a written-in campaign setting. I want to design my own and dont want to go through the work of taking a premade campaign setting out of the rules.
I would prefer a single rulebook. I dont like how most game systems keep adding supplement after supplement to their game.
I dont care how complicated the rules are. I have time to learn them ;)
I want an rpg that enables me to create an epic fantasy setting but with low or limited magic.
It seems superficial but I want the rpg book to have decent artwork. I dont want to be taken out of my imaginative mindset by coming across a piece of horrible artwork.
Can anyone help me in my quest for my ultimate rpg????? Ive been looking at a couple options but want the opinions of the knowledgable posters here at Paizo. Thanks
Well, I might suggest GURPS - it's pretty different than what I've seen in my limited experience, but I enjoyed reading the books back in the day and you can get a Lite version of the rules. (I just realized one might miss the potholed link; so here's one even I couldn't miss: http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG31-0004)
You don't need to worry about the sheer mass of books you can find there, either, as from my memory almost 95% of any given book is more about how to use the rules to emulate a specific genre/setting or a book of more detailed high-tech weaponry (the core book covers all the classic medieval/fantasy gear).
So, essentially, to address your issues (as GURPS 4e, as I remember it, handles them) -
Campaign setting - Being a generic system (with all that entails), it really doesn't assume one. It has a few examples of character creation that assume a multiverse setting with basically everything under the sun, and I think it has a brief blurb about it somewhere in the back of the book. But you don't have to wrestle it out of the rules.
Single rulebook - The Basic Set is two books - around 400 pages each, I think - that kind of feel like one book split in half (as a matter of fact the chapters keep going up in Campaigns, which is basically the DMG). As I mentioned above there must be a hojillion GURPS books, but there's markedly little rules info in most of them and it usually just gives advice about the genre and how best to mold the game to said genre.
Rules complication - On the simple side, though I suppose that's irrelevant since you don't really care. But hey, that gives you more time to focus on a campaign setting anyway.
Artwork - Well, that's hit-and-miss, but I have to say that a lot of it is memorable if not particularly pretty. A lot of it's also not specifically fantasy, obviously, so your mileage on that probably varies.
It may not be your cup of tea, but the Lite rules should give you enough crunch to make up your mind. I know you're probably not looking for a generic system, but I figured it couldn't hurt to suggest if all those other systems just haven't done it for you.
Thanks for the response. Gurps was, in fact, one of the rulesets I have recently been taking a look at. I like that it isnt tied to a setting and it seems to encourage world building. They also have a fantasy book that seemed to deal almost completely with designing your own setting so that intrigued me as well. Any other ideas?
D&D Rules Cyclopedia.
Do you know if this is available anywhere in print edition. i dont care if its used. I wont be able to get my hands on a pdf i dont think while deployed. I do love classic DnD so this would also be a good option. Thanks
If you liked the original D&D but want something more recent and still in print, you could consider Castles & Crusades.
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There's a few on Amazon, looks like.
FWIW it's worth, I consider RC the standard for single-volume RPG rules...
You're deploying? Best of luck, and be safe! USAF vet here!
GURPS was also what I was thinking as the closest system to what you described, at least of those I have played.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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D&D Rules Cyclopedia.Do you know if this is available anywhere in print edition. i dont care if its used. I wont be able to get my hands on a pdf i dont think while deployed. I do love classic DnD so this would also be a good option. Thanks
Zach linked to Amazon, thanks!
I consider this the single best RPG book ever made. I don't play OD&D, but I love my copy for the 1-36 levels, the war machine, rules for running castles, etc. If I ever get a campaign where I need mass combat, or strongholds or the like I'll gleefully use my copy (no, you can't have it, sorry).
As an aside, unlike my posts, I've yet to find a typo in it.
Hero
• No built in setting
• Single rulebook
• There is a bit of a learning curve
• Building block approach allows you to create any kind of fantasy setting you wish
Artwork has never been Hero's strength in my opinion. I do not find it as distracting as BESM 3rd, but it is not going to inspire you.
If you are looking to tinker, then Hero is your game. I am a big fan of G.U.R.P.S. as well and you can not go wrong there. However, I believe Hero offers more versatility. G.U.R.P.S. gives you all kinds of fun Advantages whereas Hero allows you to essentially build your own.
There is no default magic system. It is up to you to create one. There are some examples in Fantasy Hero to get you started.
As far as supplements go, Hero rarely adds new rules in supplements. Most of the material demonstrates how to use the core rules to build the genre schticks.
Here are some examples of magic systems that can be created with Hero.
These may be higher magic than you are looking for, but it demonstrates the flexibility of Hero.
Cursed Empire (aka Crimson Empire). I bought the first edition for this which has a very well thought out internal ruleset.
The World themes are very strong. Action takes place after a Great Cataclysm and the God's are a distant memory apart from singular human envoys which individually respresent the sole inheritor of each deities influence. This is a world at war, with clearly and imaginatively designed factions.
The emphasis is on gritty wartime campaigning, there are some traditional fantasy elements but for my part I just stripped them out and was left with a very strong world theme, great backstory and huge potential for role-playing the decline of a once sovereign empire.
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Basic Roleplay is my favourite system of the moment. Minimal learning curve (its percentile-based), and emphasises story. It's chok-full of optional rules, so you can make it as complex or as simple as you like.
It's a generic system, so just add whatever setting you want and away you go.
Cheers! :D
Might I suggest Metal, Magic and Lore?
I’ll tell you straight away that I am a co-author of the game, but I think our game will interest you.
We do not a written in campaign setting. All of the information on the character races was written so that a variety of settings could be accommodated. We provided enough information to give the game flavor, but not in a way that stifles each GM’s creativity.
We have a single rule book, the Metal, Magic and Lore Player’s Rulebook. We do have supplemental game material in the form of PDFs, but they are not required to play the game.
Our rules are pretty straightforward, although there are many nuances that could take some time to master.
An epic fantasy setting is no problem with MML. Limited magic is also no problem. We have Symbol magic, which was written with our Spartan campaign setting in mind. The Symbols are great because they do take some work on the part of the magician to use and the effects are fairly subtle. This places the emphasis on the setting and physical deeds. There aren’t easy ways of out situations, so even travel across the land becomes more interesting.
Artwork was taken very seriously when we published the game. I think we have some beautiful illustrations in the book. Our premier illustrator, Ryan Pancoast is still very much active with the project. You can see some of the work Ryan did for MML at:
http://www.ryanpancoast.com
It seems like we have what you’re looking for – so consider Metal, Magic and Lore. I don’t think you’ll be disappointed.
Best of luck on your upcoming deployment.
Thanks & Regards,
Andy
Co-Author
Metal, Magic and Lore.
In the interest of steering the discussion away from whatever people posting prefer to what YOU might prefer - What do you and don't you like in the rules systems you've played or GMed so far?
That said, I'll throw my hat in the ring: Burning Wheel.
It does fail your criteria on several points: It is split up into different physical books for core rules, character creation, monsters and magic. (That's it though, those are all the books published for the game. Anything else is variations more closely integrated with an existing theme.) The artwork is all black & white, and it's pretty damn far from what's published by Wizards or Paizo in that regard.
What it does offer is easily customized fantasy without a tacked-on campaign setting, with some pretty damn smooth rules for all the classic fantasy tropes.
It's got a big focus on roleplaying, and character evolution. Your character's ambitions and instincts are central to advancement.
If that sounds like it'd be your thing at all, there are some example PDFs available on the homepage:
Burningwheel.org Wiki
Good luck in your hunt regardless!
Without knowing precisely what you're looking for in a system, it's difficult to make a suggestion. That said, you might give Savage Worlds a shot. The Explorer edition (the latest) is 10 bucks and my group took to it like ducks to water when we decided D&D just wasn't working for us anymore. It isn't a complicated system, but it runs quickly and allows the players to be pretty heroic in scope. It is a generic system, so you can create your own fantasy setting and rules, but they have a free fantasy package you can download to get you started, as well as a fantasy equipment guide and bestiary. It's not "one book," but it isn't an endless decanter of splat books, either.
As a GM I also found it very easy to adapt existing D&D material to Savage Worlds without extensive prep time. I ran the original Freeport Trilogy using Savage Worlds straight from the modules as a test, and it went smoothly.
If you are interested in getting even more exotic, I recommend you check out John Kim's free RPG page (http://www.darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/freerpgs/) and download some of the systems you can find there. Some are better than others, but they may give you some different ideas on how to approach RPGs. My group has really enjoyed John Ross' Risus system, and we have been playing it in the Warhammer world with a lot of success. It's billed as a one-shot system, but it actually works very well as a rules-lite fantasy campaign setting.
+1 to Savage Worlds. Best $10 I've spent in a long time!
In the interest of steering the discussion away from whatever people posting prefer to what YOU might prefer - What do you and don't you like in the rules systems you've played or GMed so far?
I feel really close to AD&D but that may be just because thats what started me in roleplaying, but i do have a lot of excellent memories from DMing 2nd edition. I ran alot of campaigns in 3rd edition but i kinda dont like d20 system anymore. Thats why i moved to True 20 which i ran for a quite a few campaigns and customized alot to my playstyle. Even more customizable and very fun to play was D6 Fantasy. If I was to go back to a system it would probably be D6 Fantasy. 4E definitely didnt do it for me. I would really like a system that uses only one type of die.
Gurps, Metal Magic and Lore, and Castles and Crusades sound pretty promising or I could just hang with D6 Fantasy since i already own everything for it.
You might check out Green Ronin's Warriors and Warlocks when it comes out.
You might check out Green Ronin's Warriors and Warlocks when it comes out.
Hey hey hey, this looks promising! I did love True 20. Mutants and Masterminds uses kinda the same system doesnt it? And do you know if this book will be standalone or will i need to buy mutants and masterminds to use it?
Mutants & Masterminds and True20 are very similar. M&M does away with classes/roles and does not have feat trees. M&M also glosses over some details like weapon proficiencies.
I believe Warriors and Warlocks will require M&M.
Well,I finally settled on Metal, Magic, and Lore. I think it will help me design the epic stories and rich campaign setting I want to run but also provide gritty realism and brutality with a very-toned down maic system. Im very excited.