My 4E Rise of the Runelords campaign has taken a bit of a twist. As the PCs are about to head into Misgivings:
Un-ghoulifying someone I've got covered; they perform a Remove Affliction on him while he's helpless, which will be like an exorcism and very painful for their subject, leaving him no longer a ghoul but instead a dead body, and then they can use the Raise Dead ritual if he has been dead (including the time he was undead) for no more than 30 days.
But here's the twist - they've also decided they want to redeem Nualia, who died in the fight under Thistletop, and who was still filled with devotion to Lamashtu and hatred for everything else at the time of her death.
Here's what I've told them they'll need to do:
1) Participate in a "vision quest" to the plane of dreams (Madame Mvashti will perform this ritual). Therein, they can visit Nualia's dreams from throughout her life, and learn if there is any possibility of redemption, plus what sorts of things might help connect to her to make her want redemption.
2) Travel into the Shadowfell to Pharasma's Boneyard (via the Shadow Passage ritual). There, they need to find Nualia waiting in line, sneak her away to a discreet spot somewhere in the Boneyard (since trying to leave with her would attract too much attention), then perform an Atonement ritual (which I invented since it doesn't exist yet in 4E). During the Atonement, they can surround her with a few items to remind her of her "younger self" to help her reconnect to her innate goodness.
3) If the Atonement is successful, they can then perform Raise Dead.
On the dream-quest:
Father Tobyn will be revealed as having learned Nualia's soul was in danger. However, he didn't understand the situation, and made the assumption that Desna had turned her face from Nualia, rather than that something else was corrupting Nualia; he began nightly lectures and made her pray to Desna for forgiveness, rather than helping her open her heart and rather than helping her defend against Lamashtu's corrupting influence (since he didn't know about this part, and never thought to ask).
I also plan to show that Nualia had a number of dreams as Lamashtu began seducing the girl, starting during the time of Nualia's assignations with Delek in the tunnels. Lamashtu in the guise of a fox-headed woman, in a dream, suggested that if Nualia got pregnant, Delek would have to marry her and they could go away together. Nualia had nightmares after the breakup about how she revealed her pregnancy to Delek, and he realized she was using him and reacted by cursing her and fleeing. I may also duck into a dream of Delek's where his friends are telling him that Nualia is just using him, he doesn't believe them, then he learns she's pregnant and she makes demands of him, which he then flees - and his dream can be guilt-ridden because he really did care about her. That sort of thing.
But I also want some dreams and imagery that indicates there was once goodness in Nualia, and that it can still be reached. And the "Nualia-as-good" part is where I'm struggling.
So here's where I need help. I need ideas for what sorts of things might be "reminders" of Nualia's innate goodness. For example, if someone gave her a gift as a child, and she felt like they really cared about her, then that gift might be a good object. Also, some scenes from her childhood and teen years that might show her as a good person, or show others who care about her. I want these scenes to give the PCs ideas for objects or images they can surround her with (even if they have to recreate many of them) during the Atonement.
Any ideas or feedback?
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What a great idea. I'd say anything except a doll!
Maybe she rescued a young worg from a trap and now it's all growed up! Or she remembers her mum cutting her hair and they discover she sold it to a wigmaker. Now it's in the wig of someone who may not want to let it go. (Justice Ironbriar?)
This can be one of those 100 ideas threads!
Okay, no dolls. (grin) Okay, I'll fess up, a doll was my first thought, but most of my players are guys and I think your instinct is right here, it needs to be something much more interesting.
A creature that she rescued or helped is a great idea. Or maybe even a person in town whom she considered a friend, especially if they moved away sometime in her early teen years. That way the PCs might try to track that person down to get something from them for the Atonement.
How about if (they see in one of the dreams) she was crying one day because of yet another hair-snatching attempt, and an older child braided her hair for her, telling her with a wink that this would make it harder to snatch. (The PCs might have to work at it to come up with something useful from this one, but off the top of my head, they could recreate a shawl that older child was wearing that day, or one of the PCs could actually braid her hair during the Atonement.)
Keep 'em coming!
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Maybe Nualia saved some other poor unpopular kid from some beatings out of kindred spirit, back in the day, and that kid is now an adult that remembers Nualia fondly? Maybe the goblins that attacked Sandpoint also had instructions not to hurt that person (so showing that Nualia still has that single shred of goodness left in her)...
Maybe Nualia saved some other poor unpopular kid from some beatings out of kindred spirit, back in the day, and that kid is now an adult that remembers Nualia fondly? Maybe the goblins that attacked Sandpoint also had instructions not to hurt that person (so showing that Nualia still has that single shred of goodness left in her)...
Maybe Nualia won't atone and can't be saved. Maybe there is nothing left but bitterness and hate.
Hey, you can't save everyone.
Thanks for the additional replies! (messageboard ate my first attempt at responding, hopefully it won't now double-post)
Maybe Nualia saved some other poor unpopular kid from some beatings out of kindred spirit, back in the day, and that kid is now an adult that remembers Nualia fondly? Maybe the goblins that attacked Sandpoint also had instructions not to hurt that person (so showing that Nualia still has that single shred of goodness left in her)...
Actually, this could be useful. Would it be too creepy if the "other unpopular person" was Stoot? Yeah, he's dead, but the PCs have a couple of his smaller bird carvings, thanks to the fact that he had befriended one of the other PCs years ago; and the group knows that Stoot was picked on when he was younger. So if Nualia stopped some kids from throwing things at Stoot, and/or Stoot was kind to her...or am I better off picking someone extremely "normal" instead, that they can actually go talk to?
Maybe Nualia won't atone and can't be saved. Maybe there is nothing left but bitterness and hate.
Hey, you can't save everyone.
Yeah, Pathfinder's really big on corruption, and really short on redemption. My own first instinct had been to quash this attempt as not being true to the authors' intent.
But "bitterness and hate" describes pretty well the recent behavior of the player (NOT the PC, but the real person) who most wants to try this out. He's been going through a rough time recently, and his PC's inability to save Nualia ended up being an immense frustration to him - which I didn't have a clue about til it was all over. (His communication skills are not the best.) I'm trying to reward this player for attempting to do something constructive for once...and I certainly don't want to discourage something that has the potential to lead to so much cool roleplay opportunities.
Maybe Nualia won't atone and can't be saved. Maybe there is nothing left but bitterness and hate.
Hey, you can't save everyone.Yeah, Pathfinder's really big on corruption, and really short on redemption. My own first instinct had been to quash this attempt as not being true to the authors' intent.
But "bitterness and hate" describes pretty well the recent behavior of the player (NOT the PC, but the real person) who most wants to try this out. He's been going through a rough time recently, and his PC's inability to save Nualia ended up being an immense frustration to him - which I didn't have a clue about til it was all over. (His communication skills are not the best.) I'm trying to reward this player for attempting to do something constructive for once...and I certainly don't want to discourage something that has the potential to lead to so much cool roleplay opportunities.
Something doomed to failure shouldn't discourage roleplaying. Nualia is a very pitiable character. One can truly feel for her, much more so than for Aldern. Personally, I think Aldern is doomed to be an unrepentent monster. The roleplay can show how Nualia came to her sorry fate, without necessary being a success.
Of course, it's your game and you need to do what you need to do.|
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Actually, this could be useful. Would it be too creepy if the "other unpopular person" was Stoot? Yeah, he's dead, but the PCs have a couple of his smaller bird carvings, thanks to the fact that he had befriended one of the other PCs years ago; and the group knows that Stoot was picked on when he was younger. So if Nualia stopped some kids from throwing things at Stoot, and/or Stoot was kind to her...or am I better off picking someone extremely "normal" instead, that they can actually go talk to?
I think that it'd be better if it was someone the players could talk to (and, of course, as Stoot is dead he couldn't have been avoided by the goblins when they attacked Sandpoint). Might be cool if it were someone unexpected, someone who is now a confident and competent individual (so arguably Nualia even helped them become what they are today... maybe Belor Hemlock or something? Although he may be too old).
Something doomed to failure shouldn't discourage roleplaying. Nualia is a very pitiable character. One can truly feel for her, much more so than for Aldern. Personally, I think Aldern is doomed to be an unrepentent monster. The roleplay can show how Nualia came to her sorry fate, without necessary being a success.
You'd think that if there's one thing that could thoroughly convince a person to change her ways it would be spending some time literally burning in hell. I suspect that if Nualia gets a second chance on the material plane she's going to be chasing after an alternate afterlife. This might be for selfish reasons, but it's close enough to redemption for story purposes. :)
Something doomed to failure shouldn't discourage roleplaying. Nualia is a very pitiable character. One can truly feel for her, much more so than for Aldern. Personally, I think Aldern is doomed to be an unrepentent monster. The roleplay can show how Nualia came to her sorry fate, without necessary being a success.You'd think that if there's one thing that could thoroughly convince a person to change her ways it would be spending some time literally burning in hell. I suspect that if Nualia gets a second chance on the material plane she's going to be chasing after an alternate afterlife. This might be for selfish reasons, but it's close enough to redemption for story purposes. :)
She was a rising star in Lamashtu's eyes. Lamashtu could just give her another chance to prove herself or suffer an eternity of damnation in the Abyss. Remember, demon, not devil.
Actually, now there's an idea. The party go after Nualia's soul and find that Lamashtu isn't prepared to give up her servant. So even if Nualia is willing to repent, it doesn't really matter. She's already sold herself to Lamashtu and the demon mother of monsters won't give her up. How's that for an extra element of tragedy to the whole thing?| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Wow, lots of great stuff here!
I'm going to have to think about a lot of what's been said. I still like the idea of Nualia being redeemable, if they're really willing to put that much effort in - but I want to make sure that if they do go to the effort and actually succeed, that it feels like it wasn't a "gimme." And some of the complications/alternate views are going to be very useful in making it feel difficult - or even in making them question for themselves whether she really deserves this level of effort on their part.
Maybe they have to save the soul of her lost baby?
This made me stop and say, "Wow!" I'm really going to have to think about this one.
Okay, I'm going away to think about this some more. Thanks again for all the cool insights, and I'll keep checking back!
Das Korvut might be the friend. As someone who is teased in a cruel way (and probably always has been), he would be in a good position to understand Nualia, as well as being a natural friend, but perhaps not one that Father Tobyn would not have approved of (foul mouth, nasty temper, perhaps drinking even then).
If you like the redemption theme, this could be used as a way of bringing home that Sandpoint is reaping what it has sown....that is, the nasty side (even if unintended child activity) of Sandpoint can, and does have an effect on it and it's possible survival.