Dekana your not alone here I don't understand this either...
The spell description talks about a willing subject so I just assumed it was the burghest or one of its allies (if it had any). This is another reason why this beastie could easily take a party to peices.
Anybody got any thoughts?
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I guess that it's an artefact from older editions. In AD&D barghests had the spell-like ability emotions, a 4th -level illusionist spell which lists rage as one of his possible effects ( and has a save against it). I assume that crushing despair has the same origin.
This leads me to assume that in 3.5 too, the barghest should be able to use rage against non-willing opponents in which case the save makes sense.
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I'm doing a bit of late-night preparation for a game I'm running tomorrow. The players are likely to run into Malfeshnekor in the next session, but his Rage spell-like ability is throwing me off a little. I'm confused as to why a DC is listed for it; the Rage spell has no saving throw, and it only affects willing targets anyway. Listing a DC implies that it could be used on an enemy (or a PC in this case), but that doesn't seem to match the spell's description at all. So can it be cast on unwilling targets or not?
I'm already worried that Malfeshnekor will literally eat up my PCs, so I wouldn't want to make it harder for them by locking down the spellcasters with Rage spells.
(This question really applies to all barghests since the save DC is listed in the monster manual and SRD entries as well.)
I can't answer the DC part, but my thinking is this:
If the creature uses his Charm Monster ability to charm a PC warrior (who has low will saves in general) and have him "defend" the creature and in turn use the rage SLA....just a thought.
I can't answer the DC part, but my thinking is this: If the creature uses his Charm Monster ability to charm a PC warrior (who has low will saves in general) and have him "defend" the creature and in turn use the Rage SLA....just a thought.
I think this is correct (and would be mean). The fact that the DC is listed doesn't matter if the spell description says "willing". You would never be able to use the spell as an attack on an unwilling creature.
If you look at through the SRD / Monster Manual, pretty much all Spell-like abilities have a Save DC listed. Even healing spells (which could be attack spells against undead) have Save DC's. I think the Save DC's are always listed, even if they might not be needed.
I'm not sure if there are any rules for whether or not being charmed means you can be considered a "willing" target of any spells cast by the charmer or its allies.
If you were a generous DM, you could say that a charmed creature is only "partially willing" and give them the option of a "subconscious" will save to avoid being Raged after getting charmed.
Wow, I must have missed the 'willing' part of the spell. As written, I had Mal use Rage, not on a fighter or barbarian, but on the sorcerer so he couldn't cast any spells. I believe casting spells is one of those things you can't do while under rage. Anybody else use the spell like so?