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For the life of me I hope I'm not making this up.
I could have sworn I read somewhere that Pathfinders are outlawed in Cheliax and that they have their own group mimicking the Pathfinders.
Does anyone have a page reference for this? I checked the Cheliax and Pathfinder entries in both the Campaign Setting and Gazeteer and can't seem to find it.
Any help would be appreciated!
-DM Jeff
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For the life of me I hope I'm not making this up.
I could have sworn I read somewhere that Pathfinders are outlawed in Cheliax and that they have their own group mimicking the Pathfinders.
Does anyone have a page reference for this? I checked the Cheliax and Pathfinder entries in both the Campaign Setting and Gazeteer and can't seem to find it.
Any help would be appreciated!
-DM Jeff
Pathfinders aren't outlawed in Cheliax but there is a rival organisation - the Darklight Sisterhood. They are in the pathfinder wiki here.
First mentioned in the Guide to Korvosa
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What might be totally cool though is for their to be one or more actual 'anti-Pathfinder leagues' who either know of certain ancient secrets (a group of Osirioni mummy-priests, who remember the times of the God-Kings quite intimately, and don't want anyone re-discovering those ancient powers, at least not until they have finished working their own agenda, for instance) and are trying to hide them desperately.
Various other genres have organizations (such as The Company in Heroes or the group in Men in Black or Sci-Fi's Sanctuary or Fringe or whatever) that run around covering up stuff, and while Golarion is crawling with magic, supernatural beings, non-human monsters, etc. there might well be things that are best left alone, and secret organizations that watch out for signs of Pathfinders uncovering That Which Should Remain Forgot.
That might make an interesting scenario. A Pathfinder crew keeps bumping against one of these organizations, and even works at cross purposes to them on occasion as they are investigating the exact sort of stuff that this particular group wants kept secret and forgotten. After several run-ins with the group, they encounter the remains of a previous Pathfinder group, and one or more members of their shadowy adversary group horribly wounded, giving them a cryptic warning and *an apology* for what they are about to see, a freed horror that should have remained buried, and that, for the good of everyone, if they manage to defeat / recontain it, they should do their best to forget it and never report it to anyone, lest some other band of fools come and release it again...
What is the freed horror? Golarion is full of fun possibilities. A Spawn of Rovagug. Something related to the Old Cults / Groetus. Some Numerian metal-virus that causes people infected to grow armor plating and their weapons to fuse into their hands, turning them into Borg-like half-golems, enslaved to the will of the Quicksilver Starfallen that has replaced their blood.
Actually, the real rival group for the Pathfinder Society is the Aspis Consortium (PFCCS pg. 189). The Darklight Sisterhood isn't a serious foe for the Pathfinders.
The Aspis Consortium want artifacts to break them down into component parts and sell them off individually. The Pathfinders want artifacts for glory and sport and keep and catalog the items found to preserve them. These, of course, are generalities and there are those in both groups who don't follow them.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I'm pretty sure it has to be the Guide to Korvosa, page 56 as I don't think they are mentioned anywhere else.This is great, thank you. I still can't figure out which book I read it in but at least now I have the text, thanks again!
-DM Jeff
They also have a paragraph in the Campaign Setting, p. 198 (the index is wrong and says 196.)
Creative Director
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To be honest, I suspect that as we go forward, we'll be downplaying the Darklight Sisterhood. It's more interesting to see organizations that have their own goals and then clash with other organizations rather than just having an organization's entire reason for being simply be "to oppose some other organization."
If we DO develop the Darklight Sisterhood more, it'll probably be along the lines of a group of spoiled children eager to make their own name for themselves by trying to replace/go up against a much larger and more well-funded group, and as a result biting off more than they can chew and causing a whole host of other problems.
Josh is right, though, about the Aspis Consortium; they're a MUCH better foil for the Pathfinders, and we'll probably be doing a fair amount with that relationship in the months to come.
So this means both potential rival (in a broad sense) organizations for the Pathfinders are centered in Cheliax?
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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So this means both potential rival (in a broad sense) organizations for the Pathfinders are centered in Cheliax?
The Aspis Consortium is "based" pretty much all over the place. They made their debut in "River into Darkness," which takes place at the edge of the Mwangi Expanse.
To be honest, I suspect that as we go forward, we'll be downplaying the Darklight Sisterhood. It's more interesting to see organizations that have their own goals and then clash with other organizations rather than just having an organization's entire reason for being simply be "to oppose some other organization."
If we DO develop the Darklight Sisterhood more, it'll probably be along the lines of a group of spoiled children eager to make their own name for themselves by trying to replace/go up against a much larger and more well-funded group, and as a result biting off more than they can chew and causing a whole host of other problems.
Josh is right, though, about the Aspis Consortium; they're a MUCH better foil for the Pathfinders, and we'll probably be doing a fair amount with that relationship in the months to come.
Please don't forget about them entirely. I was actually gripped by the very childishness of the Sisterhoods aims. The harmony like assumption that they are 'totally the pathfinder sociaties nemesis' is kind of endering to me. I also think you could over time develope them into a group who are starting to realise quite how deep they have gotten them selves and are desperately fightened, looking for a way to be safe and unlearn some of the horrible truths they have started to uncover.
On a more regional level I would guess the Cyphermages could probably come in conflict with Pathfinders over Thassilonian ruins in Varisia.
The Cypher lodge doesn't feel like they'd like to share their finds or have them published/leaked to the general public.
To be honest, I suspect that as we go forward, we'll be downplaying the Darklight Sisterhood. It's more interesting to see organizations that have their own goals and then clash with other organizations rather than just having an organization's entire reason for being simply be "to oppose some other organization."
If we DO develop the Darklight Sisterhood more, it'll probably be along the lines of a group of spoiled children eager to make their own name for themselves by trying to replace/go up against a much larger and more well-funded group, and as a result biting off more than they can chew and causing a whole host of other problems.
Josh is right, though, about the Aspis Consortium; they're a MUCH better foil for the Pathfinders, and we'll probably be doing a fair amount with that relationship in the months to come.
why not just get rid of them then?
I suspect that by their very nature,
pathfinders have pissed off many many many organizations.
Exactly. With an organization as large (and morally ambiguous - remember, there's no alignment requirement for becoming a Pathfinder) as the Pathfinder Society, you're going to have a lot of different people unhappy with them for a lot of very different reasons.
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Creative Director
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why not just get rid of them then?To be honest, I suspect that as we go forward, we'll be downplaying the Darklight Sisterhood. It's more interesting to see organizations that have their own goals and then clash with other organizations rather than just having an organization's entire reason for being simply be "to oppose some other organization."
If we DO develop the Darklight Sisterhood more, it'll probably be along the lines of a group of spoiled children eager to make their own name for themselves by trying to replace/go up against a much larger and more well-funded group, and as a result biting off more than they can chew and causing a whole host of other problems.
Josh is right, though, about the Aspis Consortium; they're a MUCH better foil for the Pathfinders, and we'll probably be doing a fair amount with that relationship in the months to come.
Downplaying an element that's already in print (AKA ignoring them and never saying anything more about them) is the same thing as "getting rid of them," basically, but it's a more graceful way of doing it since it allows those who DO like the Darklight Sisterhood (or firearms or any other element we'll be downplaying) to keep them in their games without feeling like they're going against "canon" or anything like that.
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why not just get rid of them then?Downplaying an element that's already in print (AKA ignoring them and never saying anything more about them) is the same thing as "getting rid of them," basically, but it's a more graceful way of doing it since it allows those who DO like the Darklight Sisterhood (or firearms or any other element we'll be downplaying) to keep them in their games without feeling like they're going against "canon" or anything like that.
That's a cool way of 'dealing with it.' I kind of like the Darklight Sisterhood because they *aren't* all that they think they are. Not every organization has to be the Harpers. Some are just wannabes, and the Darklight Sisters would make for neat foils, being played by a larger group, being left 'holding the bag' and maybe, to everyone's shock, occasionally pulling out all the stops and beating the big boys who underestimated them to a prize, like the plucky underdogs.
When everybody has completely dismissed your organization as a dumping ground for spoiled Chelaxian daughters, it's gonna *really burn* when you leave them holding the bag...
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Contributor
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I'd say the nice part about downplaying the Sisterhood by never mentioning them again, is it seems in perfect keeping with how the Pathfinder Society views them. Which is to say, it doesn't; it doesn't acknowledge they exist and could care less about them. The Sisterhood is completely inneffectual and not a threat in the least- which of course is why they are so angry. Personally, I kind of get a kick out of them for that reason.
I imagine an encounter running something like this:
Dark Sister: "My sisters and I have come for your blood Pathfinder!"
Mr. Pathfinder: "Wait, who are you? Did we date or something?"
Dark Sister: "I am the leader of the Dark Sisterhood, an organization dedicated to eradicating the Pathfinder Society!"
Mr. Pathfinder: "Really? There's an organization that does that? Ed, did you know there's an organization dedicated to wiping us out?"
Ed: "No.. no I didn't."
Mr. Pathfinder: "Yeah, um that's pretty wierd."
Downplaying an element that's already in print (AKA ignoring them and never saying anything more about them) is the same thing as "getting rid of them," basically, but it's a more graceful way of doing it since it allows those who DO like the Darklight Sisterhood (or firearms or any other element we'll be downplaying) to keep them in their games without feeling like they're going against "canon" or anything like that.
Hm . . . that's funny. I thought the best way to deal with a setting element you wanted to quit focusing on was to write a trilogy (or two or three) about it killing and/or destroying it, violating its corpse, and then writing a series of articles explaining why people that might have liked the element are wrong for having liked an element that was so obviously flawed element in the first place . . . hm . . . live and learn.