Yes I am, currently with the creator/publisher, in New York. I do like the system very much, and in my opinion, it is more flexible in character creation.
I do highly recommend on getting it. And if you have played previous D&D characters. You might want to revisit them with the MML engine.
Things will be more different (especially on combat), and the fact that skills can be tailored to the character's history of your making, with DM's approval of course.
And Feat Free! (Not needed).
I have been playing since January, and plan to host a campiagn myself, hopefully next year.
Your post led me to a few more questions. First, I wanted to ask what your role is as being with the creator/publisher - are you on the design staff, or are you a volunteer of sorts? I just was curious to know where you are coming from.
I am not a member of the Design team, in any fashion. I have been a Gamer for 22 years+ ongoing. Just someone who tends to check out RPG material very thoroughly
And no, not a volunteer either.
5th Epoch Publishing is based in Manhattan New York.
As far as what you mention, how is the character’s building system? You mention that it is more flexible and free of feats. Can you be more specific?
I will refer to Page 4 & 5 of the Main Book of Metal Magic & Lore.
Character Building(Character Profession) 01.02.05—Players who are already familiar with role-playing may expect that during the character creation process, the player must choose a ‘character class’ or ‘profession’ to delineate the notable skills and talents of his/her character. Such character types are often grouped into generic titles such as ‘Warrior,’ ‘Wizard,’ or ‘Clergy,’ In Metal Magic and Lore, the character creation process is slightly different and the terms are used differently.
A Character ‘class’ refers only to his economic or social status, and this is described in detail in the Character Creation section. A character’s ‘profession’ refers to the essential skills that the character has used thus far to earn his or her living. These factors may be considered separately from each other, or may be intimately related to the character’s adventuring persona.
If a player imagines an adventuring character to be of a certain type, a magician for example, then it is quite possible that the character will be skilled in some other profession in addition to this current role. For example, the character may have been earning a living as a scribe or seneschal prior to or during the time which the magical skills were required. This idea can also apply to a warrior who has been a soldier in the past, but has recently earned a living as a mercenary.
Players are encouraged to invent their characters from pure imagination, using only the logic of a creative background to guide the choice of skills and talents. It is possible to have a sword-wielding magician, or a warrior who is skilled in herbal healing.
In lament terms, comparative to D&D, the majority of the Classes in that system do not allow the means to express the character first ‘mundane’ career. The skill point pool is very tight, not allowing the ability to express that character had a different life in the beginning.
With one exception, the Rogue, which has more points than all the classes, is the only character with the means to express a ‘mundane’ life, before taking only the more ‘exciting’ profession. And I don’t count the ‘Cross-Class’ feature either, I did once, but not anymore.
(MML)The overall system is Skilled-based, the attributes are D20 (are used for saving throws, jumping, perception check, and other actions, *determining what situation that arise*, that is the only use). .
Weapon fighting, offensive and defensive, magic use, offensive, defensive, and healing, are percentage based also.
There is a ranking marker, or what should be said a’ title of experience’ for the skills, as more practice is gained. As the following shows:
Novice
Competent
Journeyman
Professional
Expert
Master
Heroic
When the percentage factor excels a given number (e.g. Skilled in Fishing is currently at 09%--that marks as a Novice learner, but later, if the PC pursue that skill at a steady pace, throughout the game sessions. He/she would be known to others one day, as a Competent or Journeyman of that skill *averaging around 15% to 25%)
And depending on what race is selected, that percentage base can be increased or decreased with modifiers.
Since this is a Skill-base system, Feats will not function in these mechanics. Plus, it is not Level-Based either.
In Lament terms, the character created by you, with DM’s approval, can be custom-tailored to your specifications. Even if, there is not a rule or guideline for a certain situation, it can be house-ruled if needed, to make that something work. This again, comes under an agreement and understanding by the Game Master and you. The system does allow such matters like this, to take place.
Here are couple more things to add. On Character Creation, it is stated (in the book); it will take 15 minutes to an hour, to create a persona. That will be based on the level of expertise of that individual that is well verse in CC.
For beginning players, once you understand the system, there is a lot that can be done with it.
All guidelines/rules, are based only in the Main book, there will be NO additional editions printed, I believe, and was told, that future errata can be located at their site, to update the MB or supplements (in PDF format).
Also, what is the setting like? How does it compare to other fantasy RPGs?
The setting has been referred to a Lord of the Ring style. There is are NO Gods outright to give reverence. Bronze and Silver are the current coin (Gold is a great luxury to acquire). The Magic uses a mana System (points pool), no slots!
If you are steep in Medival History, then the setup of MML will be idea place to use.
But that will come down to personal taste. So far, I have been liking it lot. If what I say here is not enough. Please feel free to inquire more.
Islandhopper,
That was really helpful. OK, I can see a number of differences now as compared to D&D that you mentioned. Somewhere on the internet this game is compared to old Rolemaster. Do you have any familiarity with that game?
No, never played it, but saw some material of it.
I only know it slightly, didn't really play. It seemed really charts intensive.
Heard of that too
How does Meal Magic and Lore play? I have an idea of the character system, which seems fluid.
Attributes uses (using the D20), Affect these areas. (And using quoted references (slightly modified) from the Main book as well). Pages 46 to 50.
Primary Block
Stature--- (used only one time, during the Character Creation process). Roll on a chart, to determine the height, weight and natural strength; of the PC (this is fixed permanently,
Strength—determines how much weight can be carried, this includes, the types of armor that can be worned. The stronger the PC, the more heavier, the armor that one can have (which includes on what race is selected also.) But there is a catch on wearing the more ‘heavier/better protection’ armor. (*)
This attribute also affects the means to make rapid movements; therefore affecting his/her percentage change to attack and defend, Strength also affects a character’s ability to sustain damage, and the amount of weight that one can lift relative to their own size.
Coordination—is a measure of the character’s manual dexterity, speed, and ability to maneuver. This pertains to both his/her athletic skill and fine more ability.
This affects also the ability to move deftly, affecting the percentage chance to attack and defend, and to perform athletic endeavors.
Health—is a measure of Stamina and physical hardiness. A high Health indicates that the character has plenty of stamina. Furthermore, the higher a character’s Health, the more resistant to disease that character will be, and the more quickly the character will heal.
In game terms, a character’s Health affects his/her ability to replace lost hit points, as well as to replace evocation points used by magicians, who expend energy as they cast spells. Health also affects the character’s ability to sustain damage, his/her ability to resist fatigue, and the amount of weight he/she can carry.
Beauty—is a reflection of the character’s physical appearance. As a frame of reference, this score is based on what is generally considered comely by most Mannish societies. In general, some races will seem more or less beautiful to the eyes of Men, however; it is true that there are beautiful persons who exist among all of the races.
In game terms, Beauty affects the percentage of tasks that are influenced by the character’s physical appearance.
Intellect—represents analytic ability, including the capacity for logical thought. A high intellect would represent the abilities to solve complex or abstract problems and study academic material. Mathematics and astronomy are examples of skills related to intellect.
In game terms, a character Intellect affects his chance to execute task that require analytical thinking. If the character is a magician, it affects his ability to learn new spells.
Reason—is a measure of the ability to apply prior knowledge to a practical situation. The skills related to reason are wide ranging, and might everything from “Instruction,” essentially playing the role of a teacher, to “Streetwise,” the ability to work through a situation requiring shrewdness or practical understanding.
In game terms, a character’s Reason affects his ability to execute tasks involving common sense. If the character is a magician, it affects the character’s ability to cast spells or activate symbols.
Creativity—represents the ability to be inventive or innovative. Linguistic skills and the learning of new languages are influenced by the creativity attribute. Creativity also plays a role in skills as the writing of music, poetry, and calligraphy.
In game terms, a character’s Creativity affects his ability to execute tasks requiring ingenuity or artistic ability.
Presence---is a measure of the character’s ability to handle social situations and interactions. Those of high presence may be strong leaders in a group situation, and /or strong negotiators in situations that finesse and influence.
In game terms, a character’s Presence affects his percentage chance to execute tasks such as negotiation, influencing others, and performance arts.
Secondary Attributes—(as description by title only): Willpower, Evocation, Perception, System Strength, Fitness, Load. Your primary attributes affect these areas greatly.
Racial modifiers can affect your stats with positive or negative penalties.
On the skill front, something quite different than what D&D can provide, as mentions in my previous post. Depending on the race selected. They can be given a template of racial skills that are taught them, from the early years, as they grow. Additional ‘mundane’ skills can be added (with the DM’s approval), this is before the ‘profession’ is even chosen.
The level of ‘expertise’ can adjusted to represent on the hos-posh, on what the character knows, and what knowledge areas they are strong and weak in.
I have only a few other questions - sorry if I seem pesky, I am just looking for something new, but there is so much out there!
Yes there is, but what is chosen, is what we will feel most comfortable with. And no, you are not pesky.
What is the combat system like? Their website claims it is realistic and fast-paced.
A round in MML consists of 5 seconds.
(*) In related to wearing better/more protection armor, the ‘catch’ is that the heavier the armor, the slower on the reaction time to combat. (Weight is factor in on the Initiative modifier).
The Design of the engine was done to represent the near possible elements of true physical & magical combat.
Compare to Dungeon & Dragons current and past mechanics, the true grit of ‘reality combat’, was never allow to seep in, because of the certain complexities, that would seem to bog down on the overall atmosphere, to make the game fun & enjoyable
*This is subjected to variant views on what is considered—from a fun & enjoyable perceptions*
Showing the differences: MML illustrates the physical exertion, on weight of armor use. Physical fitness to see how long one can sustain the same fighting output in so-many rounds before fatigue sets in.
Injuries sustain during combat, can affect your means (on the percentage roll) to fight or defend effectively in the long run.
As example, your PC can be render with a crippling, unconscious or death blow, in the very first round, if a major vital area is hit. Surviving such a blow, will depend on what the armor worned, and what protections is provided. If your PC head is marginally protected with a decent medium helmet, the majority of the damage from the weapon used might be absorbed first on the helm, then if there any left over, the rest goes to the affected area. And depending on what is left…it can go from mild, to crippling, or very severe, or death in one round *it can happen quickly*. (In MML, body hit locations are used, with the body itself, divided into areas that can sustain damage, until they are made ineffective).
Weapons use---can also alter your initiative ratio, the weight, speed and reach are factored in, during the combat round. The damage of the (physics reality use on MML) weapons is very different than D&D.
Comparisons—the Longbow---The differences from 3.5 to 4th Edition and MML damage and range stats…
3.5 Edition—Cost 75 gold pieces, Dmg(Small creatures)—D6, Dmg(Medium Size)---D8, Crit-x3 Range Increment—100 ft, Weight 3 lb.
4th Edition---Prof(iciency?) +2, Damage D10, Range 20/40 (for battlemap uses), Price----30gp, Weight---3lbs.
MML---Pull Rating—80lbs, Initiative Modifier---6, Point Blank Range/10 yards--3D10 Dmg/ Effective Range/50 yards--3D8 Dmg. Long Range/90 yards--3D6 Dmg, Extreme Range/200 yards--1D10 Dmg. Weight 1.2 lbs, Cost 26 Bronze or Silver.
Even though the Dmg ratio alternate on the range, by MML chart, if a non/vital area is still hit, your performance in battle will be still affected on what damage is taken. And if a critical roll is established, well, wherever it lands, pray hard that your armor can absorb most of it (depending where on the armor has the greater protection and sometimes even that may not be enough). Or an exposed area is struck (no armor protection period), that event has been explained just above, on the possible results.
Magic fights receive the same benefits as well.
If there is failure on the roll, it may or may benefit you, or the opponent.
AC rating does not exist in MML. The ability is hit is base on whenever the incoming blow can pass the opponent’s defenses.
The majority of attacks can be defended, if using a sword and shield (close combat), the player can attack with weapon, and defend with shield, when the opposition attacks them.
Characters can dodge incoming missiles attack, but the percentage ratio is set very low (yeah, don’t think doing Kung Fu stuff here), the weight of gear and armor can play havoc even with the small chance you might have on that roll.
In reverse, if you have medium to light armor, you will have a better reaction time (penalties soften up), but in return, that armor will not provide the great protection that is needed.
No armor, (just clothing in general), will give you the means to get extra attacks, but you may have a crappie defense percentage, depending again on what is worn, and what weapon is used. In the case of no shield, the weapon in hand, will act as offensive and defense also *depending on what is faced*.
When characters reach their ‘Fatigue’ point in combat, even if, by chance you didn’t take any injuries throughout the combat rounds, a roll check will be required to see if the ‘rest call’ will be heeded to recover from the excretion of activities. If the roll is failed, then you must for 6 rounds (if that correct), to ‘catch your breath’ as they say.
There are certain powers, that can alleviate that problem, if the battle is that important to win (wait, consider every battle is must to win), or take a chance to fall back, and hope that your companions can handle it, until you return refreshed. *Having a Healer on hand will help greatly*
If you are injured, the damage sustain will add up, and will be calculated to see how much it affects the ‘body’ overall. There are several levels of injuries that will affect your percentage roll and possibly your attribute numbers as well.
There is no resurrection in this game. So…chose your fights wisely.
In this game, there is a body hit location; armor hit location, what weapons are effective (for damage) on what type of armor is worned. This is the meat of MML; there is some armor that has a high threshold on taking great amounts of damage. But those are the ones that can slowdown the reaction time in combat, greatly.
Wearing full Plate armor is great, but if the opponent is wearing lighter armor, will get more attacks on you. Meanwhile, ye will be stuck with one attack per round, no matter what you Init. Roll might be, and if you get injury…retreat if you can, I mean that with all sincerity.
How is magic presented?
Ah Magic…okay…first off, the slot system DOES NOT exist here. Second, depending on what profession, in the arcane field is picked, there are benefits to some.
Second, depending on what profession is selected, you can start off knowing a substantial amount of spells. You may know a lot, but what will limit your use, is the cost.
Upon character creation, if you are a caster of the arts, your primary attributes will generate a fixed given number (a pool of points), e.g. let’s says 62 points. Within that ratio, and depending on the cost of the spell invoked, again an example, a Life Elementalist using Eyes of the Wolf, cost 14 EP (Evocation Points). Now, depending on your roll, the points required can fluxate, by a successful roll, the normal cost goes on, if you get a critical success, the cost use is cut in half, or if you fail badly, you might burn up the cost in double effect and may disrupt your remain pool as well. (Yupe, there are dangers in spell casting as well) But with one noted acceptation, armor will not affect the energies used but will affect your Initiative roll, depending on the weight.)
The style of magic in MML is represented by these 3 areas; Wizardry, Elementalism and Symbolism.
The first one need no description, the second, Elementalism is based on the five elements, Air, Water, Fire, Earth and Life. And the Symbolism represents the power of magic by combing rituals and special geometric shapes.
Most of the formation on the magic writing was researched, using actual earth’s history. You will not find any important names that are well known through D&D magik history.(That is a good thing).
The view on magic, in the MML setting is seen as just ‘there’ in tone. The majority of the population just think it is just ‘mind tricking’ stuff, while those are ‘aware’ are wary, and there are those who know…and feels its present must be kept to a minimal. But again, whatever tone is set, is basically up to the Storyteller.
What about magic items, treasures, and monsters? How is the world?
Magic items—I cannot say anything of substance yet, because I have not encountered the usual ‘me find a great item of power’ jaunt.
Treasures—MML is not set up, with the precursor, of finding treasure out in the open. (Sorry, couldn’t help myself there). If there be treasure to be found, the usual tales of whispers, a founded map, or someone mentioning lost items of great value haven’t cross my character’s path yet.
Monsters—Tales of old, used in earth’s history, are used as the templates in MML’s monsters, and yes, there are some familiar ones, seen in D&D, that have been formatted to the MML engine. The major differences between them is, wait, here an example coming again.
Take the much hated and loved Kobolds, half Hit dice creatures, easy to kill, from the previous editions of D&D. (in 4E, they might have some bite now)
Take those same creatures, rev them up on the MML engine, with added battle tactics and weapons….you will have a different outcome. I have been told, that an old D&D module with Kobolds in a cave has been visited several times (using MML conversion)…the outcome as I was told, has been the same.
The attackers will get their butts handed to them, all the time, and the deepest penetration some far, was forty feet inward, and no further. The previous attempts before, met with failure and death, at the cave’s main entrance.
My reaction on every time I hear that…is like, DAMN, that sucks!
And happy…the (play-tested) Kobolds rule in MML, for now.
And oh yeah, MML monsters are a tough bunch.
The World---There are three different styles/types; one can do in the MML settings—
Spartan setting/In the Spartan campaign setting, the resources available to the player characters are limited. It is likely that characters will begin the campaign with few skills, and the ones they do possess will be developed as the campaign unfolds.
Adventurer’s Campaign/This is the common campaign setting in Metal, Magic & Lore. It is recommended for groups of all experience levels, including those who have little or no experience with role-playing games.
Heroic Campaign/The Heroic campaign setting is the stuff of legend. Player characters will take on qualities that are seemingly larger than life, and they will have many resources at their disposal.
Is this too much to ask?
Well, you got a lot today. (Laughing)
What is given here is just a smudge, if you really need to know more, the best offer I can advice, is to buy the main book. There is more detail info, there, to what I am giving here.
John -
My name is Andy and I am one of the two coauthors of “Metal Magic and Lore”. I’ve watched this conversation develop over the past few weeks and wanted to add a few thoughts.
First, I can assure you that Islandhopper wasn’t paid to give you his feedback. Initially we weren’t exactly sure who this was speaking about the game. This, in our view, is a good thing. We want the folks out there who have tried the game to relate these experiences to others who might also be interested in MML.
From what I have read the gamers who post to the Paizo message boards are an intelligent and diverse community. That’s one of the reasons we were so excited to be bringing our products to the Paizo website. We have a thriving base of MML players here in NYC, and we’re excited about having an even broader spectrum of people speaking about the game.
We currently have two PDF supplements available for download and another four should be available within a week or so. Right behind those armor supplements, we will release our Bestiary I, which provides some pretty challenging opponents for MML adventurers.
We thank you and Islandhopper for your interest in Metal Magic and Lore, and we look forward to participating in further discussions about the game.
Best Regards,
Andy.
Additional PDFs are now up.
Time to get busy!
And yes, Mr. Andy is quite correct. I am not paid at all.
:)
You are quite welcome, and if I may add, MML should be considered a back to the basic of fantasy and adventuring.
-Made simple, of just you, the character and just the skills-
It is not everyday, you can redo a favorite module, from a different point of view.
Right now, I am looking of redoing old 1st Ed. 2nd, and maybe 3/3.5 Ed PCs, into the MML game engine.
Before I even get the stuff up, I can already reimagine them, in that style.
Almost got misty eye, just thinking about it.
Islandhopper,
That was really awesome.
Thank you for putting the work into that. You are either paid to write all that (just kidding), or you must really enjoy the game! It is really great to hear about a new game that has done away with all the trimmings and still works well.
Just limited to an Attribute and percentage based skill system sounds fascinating to me. I can't believe they pulled that off, that it is that good. I looked at the website, and it seems they have a good number of PDF supplements that have been completed, but i do not see them on the site yet. Still, it sounds great.
I will discuss this with my group and look to pick up a copy if they would be willing to try it out.
Thanks again.
John
Do not travel alone without a Life Elementalism!
The Undead Union Local 1111, wishes to inform the living, that they have found us wanting, and they want us dead.
-runs away-
Just bought the Bestiary 1. I can only say Awesome! Can't wait to run these undead in a pit fight scenario. I'm scared just thinking about it. I ran them against myself for testing, and got my butt kicked. These guys are not your D&D undead. The skeletons can run circles around a decently armored character. More feedback soon!
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i just ran across this board, and wanted to put my 2 cents in. i went to the compleat strategist one saturday to check out the new d&d stuff, because i haven't gamed in so long, and found some guys demoing this game. they were running a pit fight and i got right in. i found the combat very eazy to pick up and the damage system incredibly realistic. imagine hitting an opponent and actually knowing where you hit them. lets be honest it doesn't take killing someone to knock them down or incapacitate them, and with this system it shows it. it kind of makes you think about whether or not to actually engage or run. i even heard them talking about developing a realistic two weapon fighting system (does the name "drizzt" ring a bell?) i can't wait to see it. this game has me back into the rpg scene.
I agree with this statement...wholeheartly.
I met these guys at Gencon two years ago. I had to say that my initial touch with game was kind of wary. My job at Gencon was to try out games for a store in St. Louis. As I got to looking around there were only two roleplaying games I thought were even worth looking at and to say the least Metal Magic and Lore is the one who won out. The more I demo this game for people, and get my own gaming group into playing this, the more happy I am about owning it and trying to get other people into playing this. I grew up with D&D in the myriad of forms it has taken over the years and got burned out on the idea of fantasy roleplaying. To say the least Serenity was the big game for a while. Then my group got curious about MML. Wanted to give it a shot, and they are done with character creation and are enjoying the game and they have not even gotten to the game yet. (Schedule is hectic as all...heck!) They like the system and the lethality of your decisions. One of my players made the analogy of: D&D is an action figure you get to paint and chose the weapon it carries, MML, you get to carve the miniature from the ground up, paint it and put all the background detail around it. To say the least I was very happy to hear this from my players! I am hoping to see more of what these guys can do!
Hey friends -
A quick update about what's new with 5th Epoch Publishing and the Metal, Magic and Lore RPG.
We just updated our website, see us at:
http://www.metalmagicandlore.com
Early in the month of February we posted our binder covers as a free download here in the Paizo site. The covers were popular with the folks who follow the game in NYC, so we wanted to share them with people who enjoy the game, and live outside the tri-state area.
This past week we posted our newly revised Errata Booklet PDF. This free download addresses the errors and ommisions we found in the Basic Game Player's Rulebook. It also contains three Dwarven SAPs that had a series of numbers omitted and an Index. A number of fans had indicated they felt an index was missing from the book, so we took this opportunity to get this tool out there.
We are working hard on a number of PDFs that will be available here through Paizo. The next one to be completed should be our GM's Starter Kit. I'll write a little more about this in the coming days.
Thanks to everyone for their support and we're happy to answer any questions. So, post away!
Best Regards,
Andy.
Hmmm, where is the link to the errata?
Nevermind...found it.
Hey friends -
A quick update about what's new with 5th Epoch Publishing and the Metal, Magic and Lore RPG.
We just updated our website, see us at:
http://www.metalmagicandlore.comEarly in the month of February we posted our binder covers as a free download here in the Paizo site. The covers were popular with the folks who follow the game in NYC, so we wanted to share them with people who enjoy the game, and live outside the tri-state area.
This past week we posted our newly revised Errata Booklet PDF. This free download addresses the errors and ommisions we found in the Basic Game Player's Rulebook. It also contains three Dwarven SAPs that had a series of numbers omitted and an Index. A number of fans had indicated they felt an index was missing from the book, so we took this opportunity to get this tool out there.
We are working hard on a number of PDFs that will be available here through Paizo. The next one to be completed should be our GM's Starter Kit. I'll write a little more about this in the coming days.
Thanks to everyone for their support and we're happy to answer any questions. So, post away!
Best Regards,
Andy.
Wildfire -
Glad you liked the look of the undead - they are a fearsome lot and I think your group will find them very challenging. Some of the implications with undead as they interact with the MML melee combat system are subtle. Its very interesting to watch a party of adventurers begin to fatigue as they fight undead beasts who never tire...
Every once in a while someone will ask about a PDF version of the PRB, which is our only product not available as a PDF. Sorry to say, at this time we aren't planning to offer that option. However, all of our upcoming GM's material (Travel Guide, Adventure Guide, Bestiaries, et. al.) will be available as PDFs.
We thank you for your enthusiasm and hope you enjoy the game! Let us know how your campaign goes.
Best Regards,
Andy
Co-Author
Metal, Magic and Lore