James and Wes, and all interested parties,
I am working out some options for my Pathfinder campaigns. I'm looking for Editorial feedback, but any 2 cents from any poster is welcome.
Do you think there would be lending houses or banks that could issue of letters of credit as opposed for those players with large sums of cash? I know that platinum and gems are another way to convert large amounts of currency, but I'm exploring the notion of a letter of credit.
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This idea stems out of the discussions about players needing to sell unwanted magic items in order obtaining better equipment.
Quick recap here behind the spoiler tag (bold face emphasis is mine):
All of Pathfinder's adventures assume a group of four players, so if you have more than four, you will indeed need to add in some treasure to keep them on track. We do try to skew the amount of treasure we put into the adventures at about 150% the amounts that the DMG lists as standard to account for PCs having to spend money on resurrections and other stuff, but in the end, each GM knows his party's tastes for treasure the best, and you should absolutely adjust the amount of treasure in an adventure so that it works best for your group.
Also: Magnimar's only a day travel away from Sandpoint. I know that the "magic item shop" isn't to the taste of some GMs, but the fact remains that the game is built from the ground up to support the sale of unwanted magic items (like magic ogre hooks and dogslicers) to the big city to finance the outfitting of PCs. If your group isn't into that, you absolutely SHOULD seed more magic items into the adventures, particularly ones that skew toward the types of magic items your group uses. Have a fighter who has Weapon Specialization (glaive)? Make sure you throw a few magic glaives in there. Have a bard? Make sure there's some magic instruments in the mix. Have a wizard? Throw in a few more NPC wizards with spell books and wands.
And as for evil items, having a good temple pay a bounty for things like unholy swords is a great idea. The temple of Abadar is also totally open toward buying any magic items of course, but for players who worry that putting a +1 unholy dagger or a skinsaw mask back into the market might encourage more evil to flourish, selling them to a temple of Desna or Sarenrae or Torag works as well. Such temples SHOULD pay bounties for these objects, and then either destroy them or redeem them or whatever. Think of it as a reward from a good temple to a party for taking an evil item out of circulation, I guess.
I'm not fond of the magic item shop concept, but I have players who find some of the aspects of unloading treasure and getting better equipment to be tedious and a drag on the game. They're long time players, and those aren't the exciting parts of the game for them. I've been toying with the concept of a compromise- based even on some of their own ideas.
The idea is that the players have a factor. A person responsible for taking possession of their unwanted treasure, finding buyers for that gear, and liquidating it down to the cash value. This factor could then take the party's requests and make inquiries for items they might be interested in. This factor would have connections in many ports of call, and probably broker deals with other groups and individuals in the same line of business.
The factor would charge a small percentage of the value of the items they handle. They higher the level of the party, the smaller the percentage they would charge (because the value of the items they handle would be proportionately higher).
The contract between the factor and the party could be bound and enforced by oaths sworn through Justicars and Priests of Abadar.
This leads back to my original comment about letters of credits and banking institutions (through the Church of Abadar?). My players have been saving their coins for better items and buying real estate.
I like this so far, because its way to do something similar to the "magic item shop", but without injuring my own sensibilities. I have more ideas on the subject, but I'd welcome any feedback on what I've put forth so far.
This sounds like something that the Bank of Abadar could probably do (or probably already does).
I recall that there is a good description of the Bank of Abadar and their services in Pathfinder 8.
This sounds like something that the Bank of Abadar could probably do (or probably already does).
I recall that there is a good description of the Bank of Abadar and their services in Pathfinder 8.
::nod::
I found it, and I read it. It was helpful. It sounded more like banking services for local business, guilds, and craftsmen, but it did not exclude the possibility of banking for the individual.
Bear in mind, I'm not necessarily looking for permission, I'm just sounding the idea out to see if it seems reasonable or not.. and looking out for cool ideas that I might not have thought of...
Watcher,
While this may be a bit off of what you are looking for, I have on occasion used the wealth pool mechanic from Iron Heroes (in Meastering Iron Heroes ) to mimic what you are after.
The basic wealth pool works this way, every 100 gp of treasure but into the wealth pool equals 1 wealth point. 1 wealth point can be turned back in for 50 gp.
The wealth pool represents both an early banking system (trade notes) and the character's reputation and ability to call in favors, even if no bank is around.
Mastering Iron Heroes has a number of other things you can do with wealth points, called wealth feats (which are purchased with wealth points instead of being selected like normal feats).
Like I said, this might not be what you are talking about, but I figured I would mention it in any case.
Watcher,
While this may be a bit off of what you are looking for, I have on occasion used the wealth pool mechanic from Iron Heroes (in Meastering Iron Heroes ) to mimic what you are after.The basic wealth pool works this way, every 100 gp of treasure but into the wealth pool equals 1 wealth point. 1 wealth point can be turned back in for 50 gp.
The wealth pool represents both an early banking system (trade notes) and the character's reputation and ability to call in favors, even if no bank is around.
Mastering Iron Heroes has a number of other things you can do with wealth points, called wealth feats (which are purchased with wealth points instead of being selected like normal feats).
Like I said, this might not be what you are talking about, but I figured I would mention it in any case.
That's pretty interesting.. I'll check that out. I've heard a lot of good things about Iron Heroes.
Ultimately, that might be a little too crunchy for me, but I appreciate the nod to it. It makes me want to take another look at Iron Heroes when time permits.
Mostly I'm looking for alternatives to the "Magic Shop", that fills the same function, but isn't quite so cheesey. This weath point system might do that, but I don't want to get too complicated. Plus this is pretty much an established 3.5 campaign with the players up to 12th level. They have two chapters in runelords to go and I don't want introduce a new mechanic this late in the story arc.
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I like this concept and find it a bit more appealing than the standard magic shop. Though to be honest, the place of business is very likely to look like a traditional magic shop.
Assume I am your factor.
I operate out of a small or medium sized office in Magnimar, with the help of my wife and two kids. I maintain a large network across the Inner Sea trade channels.
My office has several commonly requested items, such as healing potions, gathered from all over the Inner Sea, enchanted tools to aid the master craftsman. A few enchanted longswords, quite simply becuase the demand is so high, a few generic ones will always move. I keep a couple of wands or so in stock, again, simply because I know they will sell.
I am always happy to accept orders for specialized items, or to inquire throuhg my network for an item for you. However, it takes time. Communications still travel by courier, so an order may take a couple of months to a year or more before I receive word of an item. Once found, we'll arrange the sale, which, again, could take a few months for the transaction to take place.
I do maintain relations with local craftsmen and enchanters as well, so custom orders are often faster, but may cost more than the normal network.
Please, browse my items, but beware, this office bears a powerful enchantment against, shall we say, sticky fingers. And I do hate cleaning up the mess.
Thinking about it, the ideal of the factor appeals to me too. This middle man helps explain why PCs get half value for items they sell. If a PC is willing to set up shop and pay the taxes and guild fees, he can sell items at a higher value, otherwise he can commission a factor to represent him in this endeavor.
I might merge that idea into my next game.
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Watcher,
In my homebrew campaign, when the party was rewarded by the wealthy and recieved a large sum I would normally place it in a bank and had them a bank note/contract that they could do the shopping with in town. Now I did throw in that not all shops excepted the note, not on good terms with the King/Queen, current ruler or what have you, I also would allow the writ to transfer to other kingdoms though it often got knocked down in value do to the new kingdom actually having to travel to acquire the money spent from the originating Kingdom. Of course in the home kingdom at times there was a "tax" though it depended on how the Heroes stood in their relations with the Kingdom's Rulers or perhaps just the shop they were visiting.
Of course at the end of their shopping spree they could go back to the bank and cash the remaining amount left, though at a percentage of the remainder fee.
Auction House
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talking about banking here also makes me wonder about the financial systems of the Inner Sea. Is money issued by the governing countries, by churches, private entities or a combination?
Are there money changers to convert currency to local currency? Do the banks only work with institutions and businesses, or can individuals use services as well? Do these banks lend to individuals?
Most of these services seem to fall under the umbrella of Abadar, so one would assume that they do money conversions, and simple banking, and loans for wealthy individuals or businesses. It is likely that they issue their own currency, even.
Or is there a universal agreement across the Inner Sea to use a standard size and weight of metal for coins?
Auction House
Lol. I appreciate the metaphor, but no way. I almost took a SAN hit just reading that. It works for a MMO, but I gotta say 'Noooooo!'
I got some good ideas going, I'll post my final version.
talking about banking here also makes me wonder about the financial systems of the Inner Sea. Is money issued by the governing countries, by churches, private entities or a combination?
Are there money changers to convert currency to local currency? Do the banks only work with institutions and businesses, or can individuals use services as well? Do these banks lend to individuals?
Most of these services seem to fall under the umbrella of Abadar, so one would assume that they do money conversions, and simple banking, and loans for wealthy individuals or businesses. It is likely that they issue their own currency, even.
Or is there a universal agreement across the Inner Sea to use a standard size and weight of metal for coins?
This on the other hand.. I would love to see James and Wes weigh in on...
Cool stuff
I would also suggest that the party could hire an NPC non-adventuring servant to handle similar responsabilties (or a single member of the party sharing costs).
This individual (probably an expert with a few levels depending on the party level) might travel wit the party but not in the wilderness and would set-up sleeping and eating arrangements, shop for items and make sure all the gaer is maintained and ready.
The 4 (and 3) musketeers each had a servant doing similar things and it's a good way to deal with the buying/selling/sleeping/eating/going-away without making it just disapear.
You can also introduce some elements of the adventure threw them but don't kidnap them or change them with evil-copies, etc. unless they are forced by the player in the adventuring parts.
I almost took a SAN hit just reading that.
It was not meant as a reference to any MMO (I do not play any). I was just thinking, in addition to what you already have, there is an Auction House that holds an auction about once a month where you can sell and buy magical items.
It was not meant as a reference to any MMO (I do not play any). I was just thinking, in addition to what you already have, there is an Auction House that holds an auction about once a month where you can sell and buy magical items.
My apologies, I assumed you had played one. Had you played an MMO, I think you would understand. The AH in your average MMORPG is not the best place to suspend your sense of disbelief (if any such place exists in an MMO, but I don't want to derail the topic further).
Okay, in that light, especially on a once or twice a month basis.. that might be a noteworthy idea.
There happens to be an Auction House on my drive home from work. I have never actually been, but I see the ads on their marquee.
I imagine it would be a very large affair where all levels of society come to watch. The event itself would make a great encounter. Pick pockets working the crowd. Maybe a naughty wizards using a charm spell. A fight breaks out over one particular item.
Dude, go for it. Sounds like you've really thought this out and if it works for your game and your party's needs that's fantastic. I'd totally suggest this as a service the clergy of a larger bank of Abaddar could provide. At the same time, a criminal agency/guild might also be interested, and less picky about selling things like cursed items or the gory armor of a local guardsman--though the PCs might have to constantly make sure they're not being fleeced or deal with the fallout of whoever does end up getting their cursed magic items. Large amoral groups like the Aspis Consortium might also get into this, though they might charge an extra fee for selling some of a party's more questionable goods. Such a group might take a steep cut, but they'd be professionals and the PCs wouldn't have to keep such a close eye on them.
But yeah, again, cool idea. Hope it works out great!
Yeah, I like the idea of the "alternative factor" option through a criminal guild or something like the Aspis Consortium. The campaign model could have a few different common factor types out there that do this kind of business and the party would need to decide who they want to do business with.
I completely agree with being against the "magic item shop". From a "big picture" stand point, I just can't get past the security the place would need. Essentially they would all need to be the hands of big companies with lots of resources in order to protect the merchandise. With adventurers floating all over the place, why would these stores not be robbed constantly?
Some other ideas...
1) Weird story, but I essentially created the campaign setting for our 4E game, and then promptly stopped running it and became a player when someone else took on the DM mantle. Something I added in before then was a periodic auction held in a major city, organized by the Fraternity of the Forged. I had an organization of warforged that managed to capture their own Creation Forge and bring it to the city. In order to produce more of their kind, they have to feed the machine residiuum(sp?). The organization sponsors all kinds of adventures in the region to get magic items gathered up for disenchanting to fuel the forge. In order to finance their operation, they keep the "cooler" items intact and sell them in the auction.
2) Use someone like the Arcane, Mercane, Witchwyrd (PF 14). They could be stand alone merchants that the PCs need to track down rumors about, or the inter-planar merchants could seek out the customers. Once the PCs reach a certain power level, they are contacted by an agent and connected to the Witchwyrd network and told how to make contact again should they wish to make a transaction.
3) Although somewhat cheesy, I was an enormous fan of Neverwinter Nights' Underdark expansion where the game at one point gives you a genie bottle, only when you use it the genie that shows up is a merchant, not a warrior. I think his merchandise changed occasionally, and he would buy stuff from you. Although it is a little DM-fiat, it is also easy and perfectly explainable...the genie knows who currently has his bottle and he wants their coin, so during his non-summoned "downtime" he can specifically roam the marketstalls of the outer planes for items suited to the players. He would also know how much money they seem to have on hand each time he gets summoned, so he could tailor the items to their power level. Not because he cares about giving them something too powerful, but because he doesn't think they could afford it. Throw in a limited usage factor (1/week, 1/month, 1/3 months, whatever), and you have a portable way of getting magic items into the game that the players would want and getting rid of stuff they don't.
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There happens to be an Auction House on my drive home from work. I have never actually been, but I see the ads on their marquee.
I imagine it would be a very large affair where all levels of society come to watch. The event itself would make a great encounter. Pick pockets working the crowd. Maybe a naughty wizards using a charm spell. A fight breaks out over one particular item.
An example of this is the auction house scene at the start of Entombed with the Pharaohs. It didn't seem mmo-ish at all.
I could see something like a sealed first price auction being used to sell off magic items.