Hello, everyone! I'm a starting DM and also a newbie to Pathfinder and I'm preparing to run a Rise of the Runelords campaign and I was wondering if anyone has found or made a sort of table of equivalence or closest match between the Player's Handbook v3.5 deities and the gods in the Pathfinder Chronicles.
I know this is probably a very repeated topic but I've failed to find a comprehensive list on the forums.
Thank you all for any thoughts! :)
Henrique
I've never seen such a comparison. My first, quick pass resulted in the following. There are simply no direct analogues for some gods, and others on the list are a stretch based more on theme than, say, a direct comparison of Domains or such.
Greater deities
- Boccob (Nethys), god of magic, arcane knowledge, balance and foresight.
- Corellon Larethian (?), god of elves, magic, music, and arts.
- Garl Glittergold (?), god of gnomes, humor, and gemcutting.
- Gruumsh, god of orcs.
- Moradin (Torag), god of dwarves.
- Nerull (Urgathoa, Zon-kuthon), god of death, darkness, murder and the underworld.
- Pelor (Sarenrae), god of sun, light, strength and healing. More humans worship Pelor than any other deity.
- Wee Jas (Pharasma), goddess of magic, death, vanity, and law.
- Yondalla (?), goddess of halflings.
- Ehlonna (Erastil), goddess of forests, woodlands, flora & fauna, and fertility.
- Erythnul (Lamashtu), god of hate, envy, malice, panic, ugliness, and slaughter.
- Fharlanghn (Desna), god of horizons, distance, travel, and roads.
- Heironeous (Iomedae), god of chivalry, justice, honor, war, daring, and valor.
- Hextor (Asmodeus, Rovagug), god of war, discord, massacres, conflict, fitness, and tyranny.
- Kord (Gorum, Kurgess), god of athletics, sports, brawling, strength, and courage.
- Obad-Hai (Gozreh), god of nature, woodlands, freedom, hunting, and beasts.
- Olidammara (Calistria, Cayden Cailean), god of music, revels, wine, rogues, humor, and tricks.
- Saint Cuthbert (?), god of common sense, wisdom, zeal, honesty, truth, and discipline.
- Vecna (Norgorber), god of destructive and evil secrets.
Are you looking to use the PHB deities in your Rise of the Runelord campaign instead of the gods of Golarion? Or are you looking to use the Golarion gods and just aren't sure how they match up to the 3e domains?
At any rate, I am presently running Red Hand of Doom with mostly Pathfinder rules, however only a few gods have come up and we've just made the match that seemed most logical (i.e. Pelor-Sarenae and Wee Jas=Pharasma).
Edit: erian_7 beat met to the punch there.
My take on the "D&D Pantheon" (the standard gods in the PHB) follows. Note that few perfect conversions exist - often, the role will not be quite there, or different gods look after different parts of one D&D god's portfolio.
Alternately, Cayden Cailean might work well for halflings, as god of freedom, wine, bravery, or maybe Calistria as goddess of trickery, lust, revenge. Even Desna, goddess of dreams, stars, travelers and luck would not be too far
Nethys as god of magic or Gorum as god of war might work, too, but neither is particularly elf-like.
Out of curiosity, is Golarion a plane, existing with greyhawk, planescape and the rest? Do multi planar deities like Lolth thus have the option of gaining power there?
Or is the pathfinderworld totally cut off from all the other stuff?
Out of curiosity, is Golarion a plane, existing with greyhawk, planescape and the rest? Do multi planar deities like Lolth thus have the option of gaining power there?
Or is the pathfinderworld totally cut off from all the other stuff?
It's your game. Do what you will.
Otherwise I get the impression Paizo was trying to start with a clean sheet. No WotC dieties need apply.
Well, Asmodeus has gotten upgraded from high level devil to devil-god - so that's not really true.
Out of curiosity, is Golarion a plane, existing with greyhawk, planescape and the rest? Do multi planar deities like Lolth thus have the option of gaining power there?
Or is the pathfinderworld totally cut off from all the other stuff?
Golarion is a planet, and they haven't explicitly said that you cannot get to Oerth or Toril from there, or that somewhere, there's a gate to sigil. But they cannot officially use any of that stuff. Neither can they use any of their deities, like Lolth or Moradin.
If you need to, you certainly could say that there are connections in your game.
Well, Asmodeus has gotten upgraded from high level devil to devil-god - so that's not really true.
Asmodeus is not an invention of wizards, or of TSR, or of Gary. He's from real world myth, where he is even supposed to be the King of the Nine Hells (yes, the nine hells aren't wizards' invention, either). So Paizo can use him without problems - same goes for most other archdemons and -devils used in D&D and frankly, for a great many monsters as well. Even the gith, which aren't even open content, are "borrowed" (without permission) from George R.R. Martin (though the name is original).
Thankyou for the info, Kaeyoss. I am curious as to how the "planes" will work for pathfinder and how the gods will fit into it all. What you have said gives me an idea of the issues that Paizo will have to work around.
Hello again!
Many thanks for all your help, your input has already been very helpful and will be more as I study the Campaign Setting further during the next few weeks.
My aim is to use the Golarion deities in the Rise of the Runelords campaign but I wanted to have deity suggestions ready for my players based also on the classes they pick for their PCs, something which the PHB provides but is unavailable in the Pathfinder CampSett, so a possible translation from PHB gods to Pathfinder deities seemed useful, mostly in what concerns their themes/portfolio and alignments.
Thanks again! :)
Also, this is a bit off-topic but, those of you who've run Rise of the Runelords, did you feel difficulty in inserting other, smaller adventures in the middle of the Adventure Path chapters? Did you find the chapter adventures allowed enough space for PCs to gain a bit of experience (and treasure) on the side with other, more secondary stories? I'm especially concerned with the time before Burnt Offerings, where I mean to insert a medium-sized adventure that brings together the PCs.
[Let me repeat I'm a very rookie DM... ;) ]
Cheers, everyone!
Henrique, from Portugal
Thankyou for the info, Kaeyoss. I am curious as to how the "planes" will work for pathfinder and how the gods will fit into it all. What you have said gives me an idea of the issues that Paizo will have to work around.
The cosmology (called The Great Beyond) is explained in the Campaign Setting. It basically has an Inner Sphere (with the Material Plane smack in the middle and the Elemental Planes around it. The energy planes and transitive planes are there as well) and an Outer Sphere (which houses the 9 outer planes.
My aim is to use the Golarion deities in the Rise of the Runelords campaign but I wanted to have deity suggestions ready for my players based also on the classes they pick for their PCs, something which the PHB provides but is unavailable in the Pathfinder CampSett
Frankly, I never used that. Better to look at the gods' titles (like Gorum's Our Lord In Iron), domains, and most importantly, portfolios, and pick what you think fits your character best. Yeah, so Gorum's the god of battle and weapons and such and thus apparently ideal for a fighter (a class all about weapons and battle), but maybe your character is on his way to redemption from great evil, so Serenrae is the better fit. Or he likes to get drunk and/or values freedom and bravery? Cayden Cailean's your best bet then.....
Also, this is a bit off-topic but, those of you who've run Rise of the Runelords, did you feel difficulty in inserting other, smaller adventures in the middle of the Adventure Path chapters? Did you find the chapter adventures allowed enough space for PCs to gain a bit of experience (and treasure) on the side with other, more secondary stories? I'm especially concerned with the time before Burnt Offerings, where I mean to insert a medium-sized adventure that brings together the PCs.
I haven't done this, but I guess it's quite possible in general. Some of the fights aren't easy, anyway (small advice right up front: Switch the two lamia matriarches from PF2 and PF3, so they encounter the rogue at the end of Skinsaw and the sorceress during Hook Mountain).
My characters faced the final enemy at level 16, with only a couple thousand XP short of 17 (had they explored the final dungeon some more before confronting the boss, they would have made it to 17). Depending on how much your characters leave out and how much you put in, they will probably be between 16 and 18 at that point. Not bad for that enemy (I had to play him a bit tamer than I otherwise would have, so there's definetly room for variation in that battle).
If you do insert something before Burnt Offerings, note that things will work out a bit differently, since that adventure is supposed to be run by green characters. But if you don't think the swallowtail meeting will be enought to get the party together, go for it. I'd just say that it shouldn't be too much - after all, Burnt Offerings is the very adventure that is supposed to bring the players together.
Thankyou for the info, Kaeyoss. I am curious as to how the "planes" will work for pathfinder and how the gods will fit into it all. What you have said gives me an idea of the issues that Paizo will have to work around.
Strictly speaking, Golarion is one of many planets in a single material plane. Pahtfinder has its own cosmology similer to, but destinct form the great wheel.
There is no reason however, that this cosmology could not be a pocket cosmology within the great wheel at our gaming table, in which case, we could have lolth influence Golarion . That said, i'd really rather not, as it i'd like to have the chance to explore what pathfinder can do on its own, before having to deal with idea's like invading gods.
If you do insert something before Burnt Offerings, note that things will work out a bit differently, since that adventure is supposed to be run by green characters. But if you don't think the swallowtail meeting will be enought to get the party together, go for it. I'd just say that it shouldn't be too much - after all, Burnt Offerings is the very adventure that is supposed to bring the players together.
Thanks for the insight. :) Actually, It's a pity Pathfinder adventure paths (at least the few chapters I know) don't have suggestions on how to scale the adventure to different party levels (unless I've missed something, which is perfectly possible since I haven't read any of them thoroughly), because I'm really considering introducing another adventure before Burnt Offerings and then making the party travel to Sandpoint.
Since I'm a very newbie DM, I'm a bit afraid I'll blow the balance completely, both in terms of encounter levels throughout the entire adventure path and in terms of the story not actually starting on Sandpoint, the characters not being local, etc.I was thinking of having them come from Lastwall and Nirmathas right from the beginning of the campaign after a short adventure, so Burnt Offerings would still have a "new start" feeling because they'd be strangers there.
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Easy ways to scale an adventure for 2nd level characters instead of 1st, are to add an extra lowbie creature to a group, max out the hit points of a larger creature, and/or give it an elite stat bar. Simlar thing sthat you do if you have a larger group of players than 4, or if you're using Pathfinder characters rather than 3.5 core characters.
The elite stat bar is a nice off-set, it's not really a full CR worth of abilities, but it does usually give the mobs 1 extra AC and a few extra Hit points. I consider it a 1/2 CR addition. Really nice off-set if you're running 25point buy or 2d6+6 rolled stats.
Thanks for the insight. :) Actually, It's a pity Pathfinder adventure paths (at least the few chapters I know) don't have suggestions on how to scale the adventure to different party levels
It would most likely be very general information, anyway, like "if the party starts this as level 5 instead of level 3, give every NPC 2 levels in his main class and advance each critter to raise its CR by 2 (or add in more critters to increase the ECL by 2) or something like that.
Even the gith, which aren't even open content, are "borrowed" (without permission) from George R.R. Martin (though the name is original).Hey kae Yoss !
Where is that from ? which book ? I am a fan of GRRM, curious to know.
The term Githyanki was taken from The Dying of the Light, though they were not the same creatures there.
And I remembered what I read incorrectly: The name was "borrowed", the creatures themselves were different, if my current sources are correct (i.e. Wikipedia).
The book sounds quite nice, too. Some summary calls it Wild West in space, and the premise is interesting: A rogue planet that is drifting away from the sun, making it only a matter of time before it becomes a cold, dead, lightless world.
I remember a short called I think was"Carnival" published in Analog 20 years or so back. A rogue planet is discovered which is going to make a short pass within a solar system and for about a 75 year period the various worlds of the Galaxy hold a Carnival there during it's brief period of habitability. The story was called "Carnival" or "After the Festival" which took place with the world on it's departure end of the curve years after the last of the active festivities have ended and only the squatters remain.
Now that's a great premise! I think they should hunt down that author and publish his work under Planet Stories.
Or make a adventure module out of it. Who wouldn't like space adventures like that? Golarion could use some planetary visitors. It gets lonely between Castrovel and Akiton (which are terrible conversationists).
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Something we have done in another campaign is to start play with 0-level characters!
Spell casters get their 0-level spells
No one has a BAB or Saving Throw Bonus yet
HP equal your CON modifier (deadly stuff here) but we also added in CON Score to our HP, so 0 level was CON Score + Con Mod and 1st level added the die to HP.
No special abilities from 1st level, no feats from 1st leve, but racial bonus feats are appropriate.
Play an adventure and at the end they become bona fide PCs if they survive.