I would like to get a discussion going on 4e Eberron.
I would hope that we can do this without dredging up anti-4e posts. I don't want to bring up the Eberron/PoL debate...it's been done.
I don't want the 'Dragonborn can never fit into Eberron without handwaving' argument...it has also been done.
I would like this to be a discussion about ideas on how you would think/like 4e and Eberron to work together. Some of it has already been brought up through articles on WoTC, but I think we could still come up with some ideas/discussions.
Some areas that I think would be interesting:
1. Dragonmarks: How would they work in 4e
2. Dragonmarked Houses: How would they function (this would be built off of Keith Bakers discussion on House Jorasco and using 4e disease rules.
3. Dragonborn: How could they emerge? (Let's stay positive and present ideas/opinions)
4. Tieflings: How would they emerge?
Those are just some ideas off the top of my head. We could start discussions in this thread, or start new threads and post links here. Anyone feel like starting?
Dragonborn are easy - Argonessen gets tired of all the damned little mammals poking around, they find a weird clause in the Prophecy, and boom, dragonborn. Send them to go take over Khorvaire.
The way I see it, there are 3 possible ways to introduce Dragonborn without simply stating 'they were always there'. (OK, there are probably more than 3, but these are the 3 I like :) ).
1. As stated above, Argonessen. The ECS states that not much is actually know of Argonessen. I don't think that it stretches credibility to think that a race of creatures have existed on this island that have not interacted with Khorvaire. Also, if you take a page from how the history of the Giants was laid out (very powerful race, but they used elves as slaves and even taught them magic), I think it's reasonable that Dragons may have done the same for Dragonborn.
2. Xendrix. Again, the ECS goes out of it's way to say that a lot of this island is unexplored and that it constantly shifts/changes. Dropping the Dragonborn here and explaining that the 'Traveler's Curse' has so far kept them isolated would work.
3. They come from the other side of the world. I don't think (and I may be wrong) that anything has been published that has stated that the land masses that were presented in the ECS have to be the only ones on that world/planet. Perhaps a catastrophe has occured on the other side of the world and the Dragonborn have staged a mass exodus. Many have perished on the long journey across the ocean, and the remnants have landed on Khorvaire (or Xendrix or Argonessen (or all three)). Different nations have received these newcomers differently. Some see allies, some see interlopers.
Regarding the Dragonmarks, I guess they could pretty much work like the spellscar from 4e Edition Forgotten Realm: As multi-class Feats that gave specific powers up to level 10. After that you can take a Paragon path similar to the dragonmark related prestige class of the 3e edition...
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I would like to get a discussion going on 4e Eberron.
I would hope that we can do this without dredging up anti-4e posts. I don't want to bring up the Eberron/PoL debate...it's been done.
I don't want the 'Dragonborn can never fit into Eberron without handwaving' argument...it has also been done.
I would like this to be a discussion about ideas on how you would think/like 4e and Eberron to work together. Some of it has already been brought up through articles on WoTC, but I think we could still come up with some ideas/discussions.
Some areas that I think would be interesting:
1. Dragonmarks: How would they work in 4e
2. Dragonmarked Houses: How would they function (this would be built off of Keith Bakers discussion on House Jorasco and using 4e disease rules.
3. Dragonborn: How could they emerge? (Let's stay positive and present ideas/opinions)
4. Tieflings: How would they emerge?Those are just some ideas off the top of my head. We could start discussions in this thread, or start new threads and post links here. Anyone feel like starting?
1. Dragonmarks: Dragonmarks will probably work like a daily power or magic item. The power level of the mark will either scale with level or the character will have to spend multiple feats to increase the power level. With the way the rest of 4.0 are I'd vote for power scale with level. The dragonmark powers will altered to usefull in combat.
2. Dragonmarked houses: They would probaly have the same functions as normal. The types of rituals and alchemy formulas would be tightly controled by the houses though.3. Dragonborn: Always been there living in secret on Argoness.
4. Tieflings: Always been there living in secret in the demon wastes.
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Some areas that I think would be interesting:
1. Dragonmarks: How would they work in 4e
Almost certain to mirror Spellscars and their general structure.
2. Dragonmarked Houses: How would they function (this would be built off of Keith Bakers discussion on House Jorasco and using 4e disease rules.
Not sure what your asking? How does 4E change the way they function?
3. Dragonborn: How could they emerge? (Let's stay positive and present ideas/opinions)
Well we know their native to Argonnesen, but I recall Keith Baker saying they would have another origin, perhaps a losy Xendrik tribe?
4. Tieflings: How would they emerge?
Perhaps descendents of the carrion tribes living in the demon wastes?
Personally I'm not a massive fan of dragonborn and if I do run Eberron I'll probably ask my player to stick to one of the settings core races which IMHO are way cooler than the dragonborn. Still if I were trying to fit them into Eberron I'd probably go with Argonessen like Kvantum. Xendrik is also a pretty cool possibility. I was thinking it might also be cool to tie them into the prophecy somehow, maybe have the dragonborn emerge from the dragonmarked houses themselves. It would be a huge event in the Eberron canon and may make for more of a campaign seed than a campaign setting but I reckon it could be an interesting genesis for a new race.
As for the dragonmark thing I'm really not sure. I think the best way to do dragonmarks would maybe be as a paragon path available to mutiple (perhaps even all) classes. Maybe it could focus on generally useful powers that wouldn't provide more advantageous to any one specific class. I think that this method would probably need multiple paragon paths for each different house which would be a pain. Anyway just a couple of quick ideas.
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Keith Baker on Dragonborn ...
Dragonborn. Novels and such have already pointed to the presence of dragonborn in Argonnessen. However, Argonnessen is going to remain as mysterious and offlimits in 4E as in 3E, which means you aren't going to have a steady stream of PCs from Argonnessen. "Oh, yeah, I was hangin' with the Conclave the other day, and one of the Eyes of Chronepsis, she says 'Wasssup!', and I say..." No no no. But where dragons have ventured beyond Argonnessen, you might find dragonborn. That's all I'll say for now - but the point is that you do have dragonborn in Khorvaire, albeit in small numbers. One of the PCs in my playtest game (and bear in mind, this is before I even started talking with WotC about Eberron 4E, so don't take this as official) is a dragonborn paladin of the Blood of Vol, whose ancestors fought alongside the original Emerald Claw in the war in which the line of Vol was erradicated; his ancestors immigrated to Lhazaar and later to Karrnath along with the elven exiles. Again, don't expect us to suddenly say "Karrnath is crawling with Vol-loving dragonborn" - but it's an example of how you could find a few around.
I'm going to skip to the last question, Tieflings
I'm a little curious as to why they should have to emerge, they've been around, there's no reason to lump them all into one place and have them just pop up. I mean there's a whole fleet of aasimar in the lhazzar (sp?) principalities. I've always just had tieflings everywhere, and especially in places near bound demons.
Of the three 4e races,I think tieflings had enough behind them that they don't need to altar anything to fit in.
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I'm going to skip to the last question, Tieflings
I'm a little curious as to why they should have to emerge, they've been around, there's no reason to lump them all into one place and have them just pop up. I mean there's a whole fleet of aasimar in the lhazzar (sp?) principalities. I've always just had tieflings everywhere, and especially in places near bound demons.
Of the three 4e races,I think tieflings had enough behind them that they don't need to altar anything to fit in.
From Keith Baker ...
Tieflings. I can't talk about the full history of the tiefling in Eberron - it's just not the right time. I know that's frustrating for those of you planning to make tiefling characters, but you'll have to come up with your own story (there's certainly a lot of good ideas out there) or be a tiefling of mystery. However, what I can do is point back to what's already been said in 3.5 sources. Tieflings do exist in Eberron. They're rare in the civilized world, but not unknown. And they are most common in the west - notably Droaam and the Demon Wastes.
Back in July, I started running an Eberron 4E campaign starting with the initial modules. We began with the mini-adventure at the back of the ECS and are just now finishing the first official module Shadows of the Last War.
I'm using the story as an outline and suggestions from the modules to build the encounters out. I think it's actually pretty easy. It does require some work, but not a ridiculous amount.
The biggest adjustment I've made is ruling Dragonmarks off the table for game mechanic purposes. I have one PC playing a house jorasco cleric. We've discussed she is dragonmarked, but there's no impact on mechanics. It's just ROLE playing flavor. That's pretty much it. Everything else is fair game.
I'm SO glad they included shifters and warforged in the MM. As to the other races, I've left it pretty wide open referencing Keith's BLOG for his ideas. My take is that tieflings and dragonborn aren't exactly numerous but in larger cities like Sharn they aren't unheard of. One of my PC's is actually playing a tiefling rogue whose family was killed by members of Dask.
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I would like to get a discussion going on 4e Eberron.
Guys -
I'm *not* Eberron-smart. Blame it on my curmudgeonly side, as I got to the Warforged section and quite literally tossed the book across the room (I am sure that there are many of you that enjoy the race, etc., but I don't care for it.) I'd been doing a little DDO lately and decided that there were some interesting things I would like to perhaps do, and, I *really* enjoyed the FRPG that just came out and decided that if they could make FR palatable for me, then perhaps Eberron, too.
That being said, I'm looking for perhaps three of the MOST IMPORTANT Eberron books out there. I'm really interested in Dragonmarks and the houses, so the Dragonmarked book already caught my eye. But what out there is considered "must-have or you're going to be one lost puppy?"
(I started reading this thread, again, energized by the FRPG, and started thinking about an adventure a la 'Return of the Fourteenth' - a return of the Dragonmark of Death, only it being restricted to a dark and secretive branch of Dragonborn that have a much darker scale tint to them, and decided before I wandered into complete heresy I'd better do my homework first.)
Thanks!
Dave