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Some new Eberron stuff on Wizards site. Nothing much. Only REALLY annoying thing is the forcing of the points of light on Eberron. I mean, have they even read the campaign setting? Clearly not. The Last War did NOT turn Eberron into a points of light setting, not with lightning rails and giant metropolises.
Dumd idea,i cant understand the facination that wotc has with that point of light thing,in a frontier setting ok,but scewing FR to push the concept and now they want to do the same to eberron,bad choice.
Some new Eberron stuff on Wizards site. Nothing much. Only REALLY annoying thing is the forcing of the points of light on Eberron. I mean, have they even read the campaign setting? Clearly not. The Last War did NOT turn Eberron into a points of light setting, not with lightning rails and giant metropolises.
Yeah, the Points of Light model is kinda the antithesis of Eberron to me. The whole point of the setting, as far as I was aware, was to create a medievil fantasy version of our own world during the inter-war period of the 20's and 30's. Sure, there were still a lot of blank spaces on the map, but the civilised parts of the world were very much connected. Distrustfull, but connected. More like Rivers and Lakes of Light, really.
Yet another example of WotC...no, HASBRO's "You'll like what we tell you to" attitude.
yep,resistance is futile,join the collective,be a good little drone and buy buy buy...
;)
Can you say where or give a link - I can't seem to find it. Thanks.
Yeah, I can't find anything either. :(
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Found it.... Here
Not much, but they do mention points of light...
Take a look at our online catalog: the Eberron Campaign Guide has been added, set for release in June 2009. What else can we now reveal about Eberron?
Thursday, 2PM (Gen Con Time): The Secrets of Eberron Seminar with Keith Baker, James Wyatt, Stephen Schubert, and Jeremy Crawford sought to answer this tricky question (although, as James pointed out, the panelists would be addressing the facts of Eberron more than its secrets).
Eberron in Novels
Discussion began with a look at the novels that have recently released, leading up to November and Keith Baker's The Queen of Stone -- a spy novel of sorts, much different from The Dreaming Dark and something with a strong Eberron feel.
2009 will see DeWolf's Death Comes Easy, Wyatt's Dragon War, Bassingthwaite's Word of Traitors, and more (look for these to be added to the online product catalog shortly). According to the panel, these novels will take a step away from traditional high fantasy novels and toward what makes Eberron more, well, Eberron.
Eberron in RPGs
Again, first a look back:
* Feb 2008: City of Stormreach (the 4th Edition conversion guide has been turned over and is currently sitting with the R&D development team).
* March: Adventurer's Guide to Eberron.
* Now: DDI's Playing Warforged, Expeditionary Dispatches, and the Artificer playtest articles are already online and available to read. In the future, you'll see previews of next year's Eberron Campaign Guide.
Now a look ahead:
* Player's Handbook II: includes gnomes, half-orcs, and shifters. What are the ghostly-looking felines on the cover? James remains coy.
* Eberron Campaign Guide: June 2009, "a fresh look at a familiar world."
* Eberron Player's Guide: July 2009.
* Secrets of the Ashen Crown: July 2009.
* DDI: continue to look for further Eberron content online in Dragon and Dungeon Magazines.
What's happening with the setting? The general philosophy involves not advancing the timeline or making drastic changes to the world but refocusing on certain components of the setting. For example:
* The Last War: Just two years out, this event will be given a greater presence in the setting, as it should. No one thinks that it's truly ended -- tension remains that it is going to start again.
* The Draconic Prophecy: Dragonmarks are the prophecy written on the skin of races, and characters should have a connection to this prophecy -- the fate of the world -- played out at all levels but especially seen in new epic destinies.
* Points of Light: The Last War already brings this philosophy to the setting, with centers of civilization surrounded by large areas of uninhabited space. This is not entirely the humans' land.
* Threats New and Old: Details and hooks to bring danger into your game, some of it new to the setting. Some of these might be things waiting to happen in your campaign, and some are "evolutionary," in that they match the levels of your players as they advance.
Questions
How will kalashtar work in the absence of psionics?
They are given a psionic flavor without confining them to a psionic class, much as current powers have a psionic flavor, dealing psychic damage.
What was easy and difficult to convert about Eberron to 4th Edition?
Dragonmarks were a challenge to balance properly because of the changes to the powers structure. Overall, though, Eberron is a D&D world, fully able to be converted to the new edition. Skill challenges, for example, work really well in this noir-style setting, and rituals show that magic is a part of everyday life.
How will the new races be worked into Eberron?
Eladrin can easily be moved between planes into Eberron. The dragonborn, tiefling, and eladrin are all given hooks to help fit them into the setting.
How is the artificer developing?
Stephen Schubert is handling this class's development and is looking at two current builds: the guy who makes 'minions' and the guy who imbues items and weapons. The design of the class is essentially complete. Now development is taking place, thanks to the feedback coming in through the message boards and dndinsider@wizards.com.
Is DDI the place to go for the advancement of the Eberron storyline?
Yes, that is the plan for campaign settings moving forward. Printed campaign setting books (such as the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide) that are useful to all campaigns, not just those focused in that particular setting, will be accompanied by articles and support on DDI.
Will campaign setting material be legal in organized play games?
Yes.
Will Eberron's cosmology be adjusted for 4th Edition?
Yes. It will remain distinct, however. Consider an orrery as a metaphor to describe Eberron's cosmology -- while things might not have changed significantly, there may be a new metaphor to describe the cosmology.
Will eldritch devices ever be statted out?
Yes and no. Some can be statted now, while others function more as plot devices (those might be better handled with skill challenges, for examples).
Will the new races have their own dragonmarked houses?
There will be no new dragonmarked houses introduced, with one exception. As part of making the dragonmarked houses more accessible, the race restrictions are being lessened if not outright removed.
What is the importance of the aberrant marks?
More about these will be revealed.
Was it difficult not to advance the timeline for a new edition?
Yes. Moving it only two years forward was discussed, in order to show what's changed in the setting for a new edition (such as new races being introduced). Novels were even written as if the timeline actually did advance. In the end, though, the planners decided not to do so, but to come up with a different solution.
How does the demi-god epic destiny work in Eberron?
In Eberron, there is a belief that mortals can ascend to godhood (such as the belief great dragons can become sovereigns). Are these heroes actual demi-gods or simply mad and powerful? Essentially, that's something for the DM to decide!
Some new Eberron stuff on Wizards site. Nothing much. Only REALLY annoying thing is the forcing of the points of light on Eberron. I mean, have they even read the campaign setting? Clearly not. The Last War did NOT turn Eberron into a points of light setting, not with lightning rails and giant metropolises.
Where is this to be found?
Right, if they do a forgotten realms on Eberron, i simple will not be buying anything else from wizards. Eberron is a beautiful and unexpectedly wonderful campaign setting that only works, because of its mature attitude towards international politics, greyscale morality, international trade and the archoilogicial rape of ancient civilisations. It is not a points of light setting how ever ravaged the world maybe. It is not a simple setting and it should not be potrayed as one. Why can't they just leave an 'adult' setting in place?
What makes this worse is that, in many ways , i think Eberron is the setting that would work best with the 4E rules set. I can just see a two fisted pulp artificer, punching his way through goblin mooks to get back to his Airship.
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Some new Eberron stuff on Wizards site. Nothing much. Only REALLY annoying thing is the forcing of the points of light on Eberron. I mean, have they even read the campaign setting? Clearly not. The Last War did NOT turn Eberron into a points of light setting, not with lightning rails and giant metropolises.Where is this to be found?
Right, if they do a forgotten realms on Eberron, i simple will not be buying anything else from wizards. Eberron is a beautiful and unexpectedly wonderful campaign setting that only works, because of its mature attitude towards international politics, greyscale morality, international trade and the archoilogicial rape of ancient civilisations. It is not a points of light setting how ever ravaged the world maybe. It is not a simple setting and it should not be potrayed as one. Why can't they just leave an 'adult' setting in place?
What makes this worse is that, in many ways , i think Eberron is the setting that would work best with the 4E rules set. I can just see a two fisted pulp artificer, punching his way through goblin mooks to get back to his Airship.
look at my post above yours... has a link..
And this is what they say about points of light..
Points of Light: The Last War already brings this philosophy to the setting, with centers of civilization surrounded by large areas of uninhabited space. This is not entirely the humans' land.
So we're adding in new races that have not appeared in the campaign at all. I wonder how hard they're going to cram the dragonborn down Eberron fan throats.
A change in the cosmology, they downplay it, but I can bet it's going to be a cheesy way to intro new races, unless they try to play off the "they've been here all along", which would be easier with a static setting like Eberron.
Will the new races have their own dragonmarked houses?
There will be no new dragonmarked houses introduced, with one exception. As part of making the dragonmarked houses more accessible, the race restrictions are being lessened if not outright removed.
Now this may not mean what I think it does, but it seems to me that they are adding a new Dragonmarked house AND opening it up for anyone of any race to get any dragonmark.
It seems like Eberron is getting off easier than Forgotten Realms, but they still have plenty of time to fix that
Some new Eberron stuff on Wizards site. Nothing much. Only REALLY annoying thing is the forcing of the points of light on Eberron. I mean, have they even read the campaign setting? Clearly not. The Last War did NOT turn Eberron into a points of light setting, not with lightning rails and giant metropolises.Where is this to be found?
Right, if they do a forgotten realms on Eberron, i simple will not be buying anything else from wizards. Eberron is a beautiful and unexpectedly wonderful campaign setting that only works, because of its mature attitude towards international politics, greyscale morality, international trade and the archoilogicial rape of ancient civilisations. It is not a points of light setting how ever ravaged the world maybe. It is not a simple setting and it should not be potrayed as one. Why can't they just leave an 'adult' setting in place?
What makes this worse is that, in many ways , i think Eberron is the setting that would work best with the 4E rules set. I can just see a two fisted pulp artificer, punching his way through goblin mooks to get back to his Airship.
look at my post above yours... has a link..
And this is what they say about points of light..
Points of Light: The Last War already brings this philosophy to the setting, with centers of civilization surrounded by large areas of uninhabited space. This is not entirely the humans' land.
Sorry, you posted while i was typing.
With regards to points of light: This just isn't true. Their certainly are places which conform to the ideas of the points of light model, however, even monsterous lands in Eberron have a degree of organisation, and most of the large nations, despite refugee problems and some scaring still have relatively in tact infrastructures. Also, long distance and luxury travel are reatively cheap rates is common in Eberron, thanks to airships and lightning rail.
So we're adding in new races that have not appeared in the campaign at all. I wonder how hard they're going to cram the dragonborn down Eberron fan throats.
They already have added the Dragonborn, they show up about a third into the Dragon Forge novel. Soured me on that book real fast.
I was afraid this was going to happen, the Forgotten Realms dies a quick "100 year jump" death, but Eberron will die the death of a 1000 edits, one DDI article at a time.
While I hate to do it, I feel I should put up a cursory defense of the Points of Light for Eberron.
Look to Droaam, the Eldeen Reaches, the Demon Wastes, Xen'drik, all these places have some civilization in them, yet they are also home to untamed wilderness and dangers. In these cases I can see how an arguement could be made for Points of Light, but in the end I feel that it is overwhelmed by the inter-connectivity of the rest of the world, and is really more of a sidebar notation than a theme for the setting.
They already have added the Dragonborn, they show up about a third into the Dragon Forge novel. Soured me on that book real fast.I was afraid this was going to happen, the Forgotten Realms dies a quick "100 year jump" death, but Eberron will die the death of a 1000 edits, one DDI article at a time.
I haven't read that one yet, how do they explain the new race? Or do they just appear?
While I hate to do it, I feel I should put up a cursory defense of the Points of Light for Eberron.
Look to Droaam, the Eldeen Reaches, the Demon Wastes, Xen'drik, all these places have some civilization in them, yet they are also home to untamed wilderness and dangers. In these cases I can see how an arguement could be made for Points of Light, but in the end I feel that it is overwhelmed by the inter-connectivity of the rest of the world, and is really more of a sidebar notation than a theme for the setting.
Very well, how would you work points of light in sharn, arguably Eberron's flagship city. Home to a hundred and one film noir story lines and vicious gangsters?
I would never denight that points of light has its useds and yes, places like Xen'drik do conform to it, but very large chunks of Eberron 'civilised' world does not.
Very well, how would you work points of light in sharn, arguably Eberron's flagship city. Home to a hundred and one film noir story lines and vicious gangsters?I would never denight that points of light has its useds and yes, places like Xen'drik do conform to it, but very large chunks of Eberron 'civilised' world does not.
I wouldn't note how I didn't mention it, but since you brought it up, a campaign set in Lower Dura and the Cogs could easily translate into a Points of Light campaign, safety in the lower reaches is rare and hard to find.
I haven't read that one yet, how do they explain the new race? Or do they just appear?
They already have added the Dragonborn, they show up about a third into the Dragon Forge novel. Soured me on that book real fast.I was afraid this was going to happen, the Forgotten Realms dies a quick "100 year jump" death, but Eberron will die the death of a 1000 edits, one DDI article at a time.
Looks like they are treating eladrin as planewalkers. Visiters from else where...no clue on dragonborn or tieflings as are. To be honest, i would just use them as tieflings as were.
Oddly, i don't think i would care to much about additional races being added to Eberron. Its a big world with room for a lot of stuff.
far greater a risk, i would say, is dumbing the setting down. Take away what little edge this setting has and really all your left with is airships and lightning rails, which while cool are not alone enough to hold my interest.
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I haven't read that one yet, how do they explain the new race? Or do they just appear?
They already have added the Dragonborn, they show up about a third into the Dragon Forge novel. Soured me on that book real fast.I was afraid this was going to happen, the Forgotten Realms dies a quick "100 year jump" death, but Eberron will die the death of a 1000 edits, one DDI article at a time.
Looks like they are treating eladrin as planewalkers. Visiters from else where...no clue on dragonborn or tieflings as are. To be honest, i would just use them as tieflings as were.
Oddly, i don't think i would care to much about additional races being added to Eberron. Its a big world with room for a lot of stuff.
far greater a risk, i would say, is dumbing the setting down. Take away what little edge this setting has and really all your left with is airships and lightning rails, which while cool are not alone enough to hold my interest.
I am not really that worried about the Planer races.. those are easy..
But the Dragonborn.. will be interested how they are added...
Eladrins--Natives to Thelanis (that's the fey one right, I get those mixed up), no problem there I could live with that.
Tieflings--I already use these, they aren't common, but they exist across Khorvaire, no problem here either.
Dragonborn-- . . . I just I can't. . . I woulnd't know how to make these work, are they connected to the dragons? The same dragons who destroyed and entire family of elves and one of their own for inter-breeding. I'm having a hard time finding a place for the Dragonborn in Eberron. Which is why I'm curious as to how they are going to used.
I wouldn't note how I didn't mention it, but since you brought it up, a campaign set in Lower Dura and the Cogs could easily translate into a Points of Light campaign, safety in the lower reaches is rare and hard to find.
Very well, how would you work points of light in sharn, arguably Eberron's flagship city. Home to a hundred and one film noir story lines and vicious gangsters?I would never denight that points of light has its useds and yes, places like Xen'drik do conform to it, but very large chunks of Eberron 'civilised' world does not.
I don't buy that, sorry. While yes, you can delve into the cogs and dungeon bash your way through it. But Lower Dura(from memory), while a vicious slum, is still part of the city itself, sure is crappy but its hardly cut of from civilisation, save perhapes economicially.
That would be my suggestion as well, along with kicking their new homogenized appearances and unified origin to the curb.To be honest, i would just use them as tieflings as were.
Well, of course, that should happen no matter what setting.
That would be my suggestion as well, along with kicking their new homogenized appearances and unified origin to the curb.To be honest, i would just use them as tieflings as were.
I've tried doing 'interesting stuff' with the tieflings, going for a spelljammer kinda thing with them...then i realised i'd created a carbon copy of the Draenei by accident.
Eladrins--Natives to Thelanis (that's the fey one right, I get those mixed up), no problem there I could live with that.
Tieflings--I already use these, they aren't common, but they exist across Khorvaire, no problem here either.
Dragonborn-- . . . I just I can't. . . I woulnd't know how to make these work, are they connected to the dragons? The same dragons who destroyed and entire family of elves and one of their own for inter-breeding. I'm having a hard time finding a place for the Dragonborn in Eberron. Which is why I'm curious as to how they are going to used.
Argonessen is a great place for Dragonborn. So is Xen'drik.
Argonessen is a great place for Dragonborn. So is Xen'drik.Eladrins--Natives to Thelanis (that's the fey one right, I get those mixed up), no problem there I could live with that.
Tieflings--I already use these, they aren't common, but they exist across Khorvaire, no problem here either.
Dragonborn-- . . . I just I can't. . . I woulnd't know how to make these work, are they connected to the dragons? The same dragons who destroyed and entire family of elves and one of their own for inter-breeding. I'm having a hard time finding a place for the Dragonborn in Eberron. Which is why I'm curious as to how they are going to used.
And they came from? They serve what purpose on Argonessen? And what is their role in Xen'drik? How have they fit into it's history?
And keep in mind, answers that use the, "small community recently discovered schtick", won't work, because of how hard they'll be pushed.
Argonessen is a great place for Dragonborn. So is Xen'drik.Eladrins--Natives to Thelanis (that's the fey one right, I get those mixed up), no problem there I could live with that.
Tieflings--I already use these, they aren't common, but they exist across Khorvaire, no problem here either.
Dragonborn-- . . . I just I can't. . . I woulnd't know how to make these work, are they connected to the dragons? The same dragons who destroyed and entire family of elves and one of their own for inter-breeding. I'm having a hard time finding a place for the Dragonborn in Eberron. Which is why I'm curious as to how they are going to used.
And they came from? They serve what purpose on Argonessen? And what is their role in Xen'drik? How have they fit into it's history?
And keep in mind, answers that use the, "small community recently discovered schtick", won't work, because of how hard they'll be pushed.
I have to agree that given the some what genocidial nature of the dragons, i cant see to much in the way of a reason they would let something like the dragonborn exist.
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Found it.... Here
Not much, but they do mention points of light...
Heheh, well I am pumped about Star Wars at least.
Cheers,
Zuxius
I have to agree that given the some what genocidial nature of the dragons, i cant see to much in the way of a reason they would let something like the dragonborn exist.
I guess it really depends on how much you would allow the background ofthe Dragonborn to change from what is in the Player's Handbook.
They could be a 'constructed' race created by the Dragons. Meant to serve as their servants to help shape and bring forth the Prophecy of the Dragon. (Constructed meaning by magic, not an actual Construct). The Dragons, vying for power amongst themselves, have long ago realized that fighting to the death did not serve Dragon-kind. Instead, they created the Dragonborn to fight on their behalf. (Think of the dragons basically having giant battles using Dragonborn as no more than sentient chess pieces).
Perhaps a pivotal turning point in the Prophecy has forced the Dragons to send forth these creatures into the more civilized world of Eberron. Perhaps the Dragonborn, reaching a point in their civilization, no longer wish to be mere slaves to the Dragon's whim, have staged a mass migration from Argonessen to Khorvaire.
Lot's of things they could do to make this work.
As for the Point's of Light comment...without further clarification on what they meant, I am not going to get bent out of shape. Perhaps all they meant was that, despite most of the cities being accessable by more 'modern' modes of transportation (Airship, Lightning Rail,, etc.), travel between these places by more mundane methods (foot, horseback) still follows the Points of Light methodology as it is still considered dangerous. (Especially given that the War ended only recently...Former mercenaries/soldiers acting as bandits, etc.)
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What I would hope for with the lessening of the racial requirements is not the lessening of the mark requirements themselves, but the general 'this house hires the races that make up the marked' thing. A more generally accessible(sp?) house would be neat, but I don't want to see the marks become more lax in restriction.
While I hate to do it, I feel I should put up a cursory defense of the Points of Light for Eberron.
Look to Droaam, the Eldeen Reaches, the Demon Wastes, Xen'drik, all these places have some civilization in them, yet they are also home to untamed wilderness and dangers. In these cases I can see how an arguement could be made for Points of Light, but in the end I feel that it is overwhelmed by the inter-connectivity of the rest of the world, and is really more of a sidebar notation than a theme for the setting.
The Points of light work very well for Ebberon. Yes, there are some very big civilized areas that people have fully explored and settled, but there are significant fronteeir ranges between those sections and on edges of the world. And even though people know what's there, the threat of war looming and the remains of the previous war are everywhere. It's not safe to go into some places because of the worlds history.
Very well, how would you work points of light in sharn, arguably Eberron's flagship city. Home to a hundred and one film noir story lines and vicious gangsters?
Easy! Lord, Sharn conforms to the points of light concept more then most of the world of Ebberon does. You just have to think of it in the right scale.
Now, instead of using a wilderness frontier world map, you're using just a city map. The important places like cities on the frontier map become important buildings instead. In a fog filled, noir setting like Sharn every street lamp becomes a point of light. Every bar is a setting to explore, and every dark alley is a dangerous forest with monsters in it.
In a setting like Sharn or Waterdeep, you never know what's around the next corner. You have a map, sure, and you know the street names, much like you'd know the names of river on a wilderness map, but chances are you won't know what is actually in more then one or two buildings on each street.
That's how how a setting like Sharn becomes points of light, as your character explores more of the city and meets more people, they fill in the map just like you would in a frontier setting. The scale is just different.
Oooh, another race confirmed for PHB II. I'll have to go dig up the thread I posted and see if we already knew that ...
Re: Dragonborn in Eberron, I beleive I saw a post somewhere (possibly from the Fiendish Bovine himself?) saying that while the Dragons viewed Half-Dragons as abominations, they would see Dragonborn more like pets. Anyway, Dragonborn already existed in Eberron somewhere (under the, everything in DnD exists in Eberron somewhere) as Dragonborn were in 3E.
Cheers! :)
Edit: I agree, Eberron has lots of PoL style areas. I don't think that one line means as much as some here suggest.
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Edit: I agree, Eberron has lots of PoL style areas. I don't think that one line means as much as some here suggest.
Agreed.. Eberron is PoL in the lightest sense.. Lets look at what Poits of Light are as described by Rich Baker of WotC
1. Civilized folk live in small, isolated points of light scattered across a big, dark, dangerous world.
Obviously this does not fit that well since there are many Large cities in Eberron... If you want to stretch this out for eberron you could say the same of every D&D game ever made!
2. Most of the world is monster-haunted wilderness.
Once again.. that can fit any D&D world..
3. The centers of civilization are few and far between, and the world isn’t carved up between nation-states that jealously enforce their borders.
To me this is the main point of PoL and in no way fits eberron since well the world is split into nation states that enforce their borders.
4. A few difficult and dangerous roads tenuously link neighboring cities together, but if you stray from them you quickly find yourself immersed in goblin-infested forests, haunted barrowfields, desolate hills and marshes, and monster-hunted badlands.
As been noted travel is fairly easy in Eberron but if you were not to take the safe travel ways.. well then it would be dangerous.. just like any D&D game.
5. Since towns and villages do not stay in close contact, it’s easy for all sorts of evils to befall a settlement without anyone noticing for a long time. A village might be terrorized by a pack of werewolves or enslaved by an evil wizard, and no one else would know until adventurers stumbled into the situation.
Thanks to House Sivis communication through out the main continent is easily done, though I am sure there are some villages that are harder to get info from the rest of the world then others.
6. Many small settlements and strongholds are founded, flourish for a time, and then fall into darkness. The wild lands are filled with forgotten towers, abandoned towns, haunted castles, and ruined temples. Even people living only a few miles away from such places might know them only by rumor and legend
While I am sure there are ancient ruins through out the main continent that is true for all D&D games. And i am sure there a some isolated villages it is not to the extreme as the PoL Concept.
All and all Eberron on Khorvaire only in the very loose sense fits PoL, but in general it does not.
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Edit: I agree, Eberron has lots of PoL style areas. I don't think that one line means as much as some here suggest.
Agreed.. Eberron is PoL in the lightest sense.. Lets look at what Poits of Light are as described by Rich Baker of WotC
1. Civilized folk live in small, isolated points of light scattered across a big, dark, dangerous world.
Obviously this does not fit that well since there are many Large cities in Eberron... If you want to stretch this out for eberron you could say the same of every D&D game ever made!
2. Most of the world is monster-haunted wilderness.
Once again.. that can fit any D&D world..
3. The centers of civilization are few and far between, and the world isn’t carved up between nation-states that jealously enforce their borders.
To me this is the main point of PoL and in no way fits eberron since well the world is split into nation states that enforce their borders.
4. A few difficult and dangerous roads tenuously link neighboring cities together, but if you stray from them you quickly find yourself immersed in goblin-infested forests, haunted barrowfields, desolate hills and marshes, and monster-hunted badlands.
As been noted travel is fairly easy in Eberron but if you were not to take the safe travel ways.. well then it would be dangerous.. just like any D&D game.
5. Since towns and villages do not stay in close contact, it’s easy for all sorts of evils to befall a settlement without anyone noticing for a long time. A village might be terrorized by a pack of werewolves or enslaved by an evil wizard, and no one else would know until adventurers stumbled into the situation.
Thanks to House Sivis communication through out the main continent is easily done, though I am sure there are some villages that are harder to get info from the rest of the world then others.
6. Many small settlements and strongholds are founded, flourish for a time, and then fall into darkness. The wild lands are filled with forgotten towers,...
Agreed 100%. Also, while one could use points of light in their Eberron game and make it work, the style of most or all Eberron games I have played in could never use points of light. Also, I disagree that Sharn could ever be used in points of light. Most of the city is not "enemy haunted wilderness," centers of civilization are not "few and far between," and the entire city stays in close contact, save for a few monstrous, uncivilized, unconnected places near the very bottom.
I have to agree that given the some what genocidial nature of the dragons, i cant see to much in the way of a reason they would let something like the dragonborn exist.Argonessen is a great place for Dragonborn. So is Xen'drik.Eladrins--Natives to Thelanis (that's the fey one right, I get those mixed up), no problem there I could live with that.
Tieflings--I already use these, they aren't common, but they exist across Khorvaire, no problem here either.
Dragonborn-- . . . I just I can't. . . I woulnd't know how to make these work, are they connected to the dragons? The same dragons who destroyed and entire family of elves and one of their own for inter-breeding. I'm having a hard time finding a place for the Dragonborn in Eberron. Which is why I'm curious as to how they are going to used.
And they came from? They serve what purpose on Argonessen? And what is their role in Xen'drik? How have they fit into it's history?
And keep in mind, answers that use the, "small community recently discovered schtick", won't work, because of how hard they'll be pushed.
Well, its very easy to say that the Dragonborn were spawned in a similar fashion as in 4e. They were created from the blood of the 3 great dragons Eberron, Siberys, and Khyber. The amount of this essence was lesser and thus created the Dragonborn. Dragon's kept them around because they proved to be useful (Much like the Elves and Drow were for the Giants).
Now the Dragonborn serve the various dragons of Argonessen at home and through out the world. Some have fled to Xen'Drik (and other places) for various reasons such as freedom. Some even worship Dragons as gods. They could easily replace the various lizardfolk (or be added in) to the nation of Q'barra.They could also easily be tied in with the gatekeepers.
While I hate to do it, I feel I should put up a cursory defense of the Points of Light for Eberron.
Look to Droaam, the Eldeen Reaches, the Demon Wastes, Xen'drik, all these places have some civilization in them, yet they are also home to untamed wilderness and dangers. In these cases I can see how an arguement could be made for Points of Light, but in the end I feel that it is overwhelmed by the inter-connectivity of the rest of the world, and is really more of a sidebar notation than a theme for the setting.
The Points of light work very well for Ebberon. Yes, there are some very big civilized areas that people have fully explored and settled, but there are significant fronteeir ranges between those sections and on edges of the world. And even though people know what's there, the threat of war looming and the remains of the previous war are everywhere. It's not safe to go into some places because of the worlds history.
Very well, how would you work points of light in sharn, arguably Eberron's flagship city. Home to a hundred and one film noir story lines and vicious gangsters?
Easy! Lord, Sharn conforms to the points of light concept more then most of the world of Ebberon does. You just have to think of it in the right scale.
Now, instead of using a wilderness frontier world map, you're using just a city map. The important places like cities on the frontier map become important buildings instead. In a fog filled, noir setting like Sharn every street lamp becomes a point of light. Every bar is a setting to explore, and every dark alley is a dangerous forest with monsters in it.
In a setting like Sharn or Waterdeep, you never know what's around the next corner. You have a map, sure, and you know the street names, much like you'd know the names of river on a wilderness map, but chances are you won't know what is actually in more then one or two buildings on each street.
That's how how a setting like Sharn...
The thing is, what your describing there, is not points of light as wizards have described it...I would discibe it possible as gothicnoir.
Don't get me wrong, i really like points of light, i am a wfrp and ravenloft fan after all, but eberron is not points of light, in anything but the very loosest of senses. In fact, many of its thems, such as the lull between wars and the arcane espionage are very clearly antithematic to points of light.
They could be a 'constructed' race created by the Dragons. Meant to serve as their servants to help shape and bring forth the Prophecy of the Dragon. (Constructed meaning by magic, not an actual Construct). The Dragons, vying for power amongst themselves, have long ago realized that fighting to the death did not serve Dragon-kind. Instead, they created the Dragonborn to fight on their behalf. (Think of the dragons basically having giant battles using Dragonborn as no more than sentient chess pieces).Perhaps a pivotal turning point in the Prophecy has forced the Dragons to send forth these creatures into the more civilized world of Eberron. Perhaps the Dragonborn, reaching a point in their civilization, no longer wish to be mere slaves to the Dragon's whim, have staged a mass migration from Argonessen to Khorvaire.
Wow, no, that's not even close to being acceptable. What you're doing here is adding new race, and giving it a significant role, when it has not appeared in the books previously. The dragons use dragonborn in battle? Since when?
They have to send forth an entire race to satisfy the Prophecy? I might buy that if every dragon agreed on the prophecy, but since we know they don't, then using that to explain a whole new race and culture just doesn't work, not enough would make it out.
Slaves? Really, dude the dragons are the top of the magical and physical might food chain, why would the need slaves, and more importantly, how could they all just leave?
Well, its very easy to say that the Dragonborn were spawned in a similar fashion as in 4e. They were created from the blood of the 3 great dragons Eberron, Siberys, and Khyber. The amount of this essence was lesser and thus created the Dragonborn. Dragon's kept them around because they proved to be useful (Much like the Elves and Drow were for the Giants).
Now the Dragonborn serve the various dragons of Argonessen at home and through out the world. Some have fled to Xen'Drik (and other places) for various reasons such as freedom. Some even worship Dragons as gods. They could easily replace the various lizardfolk (or be added in) to the nation of Q'barra.They could also easily be tied in with the gatekeepers.
This is one is worse, here you're suggesting rewriting the history that's been laid out, suddenly Q'barran lizardfolk are dragonborn. And oh, the Gatekeepers are orcs, half-orcs, some humans, and dragonborn (sure they've been here the whole time).
Hmm.
I like Eberron. I won't be buying any 4E Eberron products. Guess I'll just move forward on my own from here.
What I've read so far about 4E Eberron sucks. WotC seems so fixated on homogeneity, points of light, making sure their core races are everywhere even when they shouldn't be, etc. that they're willing to screw things up to make it fit their vision.
If I was an FR fan, I'd have been irritated about FR. As an Eberron fan I am irritated about Eberron.
In fact, the whole thing gives me a slightly foul taste in my mouth about 4E. I like 4E, but if 4E is going to be the cause of WotC making stupid decisions to get everything to "conform," then I'm going to grow to dislike it.
This doesn't bode well for future setting releases. How much are they going to have to torture these other settings to get everything from 4E into them? Why not just pick and choose the elements of 4E that fit with the setting and leave the rest out? That's the beauty of various settings - they're DIFFERENT.
Let me guess, Strahd has always secretly had dragonborn servants, only no one ever knew it, and now they're going to be released onto the world of Ravenloft! heh.
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Well, of course, that should happen no matter what setting.That would be my suggestion as well, along with kicking their new homogenized appearances and unified origin to the curb.To be honest, i would just use them as tieflings as were.
Here's hoping 4E Planescape holds to that.
Actually, here's hoping 4E skips Planescape altogether. Sorry Dark Sun, Spelljammer, and Mystara fans. I like those settings too, but I'm willing to throw them in front of the bus to save my precious.
My precious...
Wow, no, that's not even close to being acceptable. What you're doing here is adding new race, and giving it a significant role, when it has not appeared in the books previously. The dragons use dragonborn in battle? Since when?
They have to send forth an entire race to satisfy the Prophecy? I might buy that if every dragon agreed on the prophecy, but since we know they don't, then using that to explain a whole new race and culture just doesn't work, not enough would make it out.
Slaves? Really, dude the dragons are the top of the magical and physical might food chain, why would the need slaves, and more importantly, how could they all just leave?
Dude, I was simply throwing out some ideas...not claiming they are perfect, but it's what I can do on a Friday afternoon while dodging any real work :)
Let me address some of your concerns (again, these are simply some quick ideas) :
Dragons using Dragonborn in battles: I wasn;t thinking about battles across the globe. More along the lines of using them in battles on their continent. Something the majority of humankind may know nothing about.
Sending them forth: No where does it mention that the 'entire race' has taken up residence anywhere. They could be delegations sent forth, ambassadors, whatever. Different groups could represent different dragons. Lots of different reasons.
Slaves: Is it really that much of a stretch? Why do they need slaves? Because they are at the top of the food chain...that's why! :). Why would they sully themselves with more minor tasks? (This has been a staple of a lot of fantasy). As for leaving, see the above comment about it not being all of them. Maybe an underground railroad type system has existed and they have kept themselves hidden, but now the numbers are such that being hidden is no longer an option. Perhaps Dragonborn have just recently started developing Dragonmarks and the Dragons (while disagreeing on the interpretation of the Prophecy, all agreeing on it's importance), have decided they can no longer enslave this race and have set them free.
Again, all I am saying is that there are lots of options for explaining Dragonborn.
One other thing, about the points of light issue. The point so light are mentioned in the DMG as part of "The World is Mysterious" section of core assumptions made about the world that D&D is set in. As we are now talking about a specific Campaign setting, then these core assumptions are rather moot, and nowhere in the quoted article does it state that Eberron is going to follow the core assumptions of the D&D world as laid out in the DMG.
It does reference Points of Light as something that already exists in Eberron.
As stated in the DMG:
Some of these settlements are “points of light” where adventurers can expect peaceful interaction with the inhabitants, but many more are dangerous.
So, it is my understanding that by itself, Points of Light refers to the fact that there are places/settlements that exist where the party can reasonably expect to be safe. Outside of these areas, they should not be surprised if something bad occurs.
So how would this not apply to both Khorvaire (or even Sharn as a previous poster stated)?
Most major cities are Points of Light, and while travel between cities is easy, the danger increases in the remote areas between the cities.
Within Sharn, there area areas where even the guards fear to dread. So the better neighbourhoods may be considered points of light, while the Cogs are the more dangerou area within the city.
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One other thing, about the points of light issue. The point so light are mentioned in the DMG as part of "The World is Mysterious" section of core assumptions made about the world that D&D is set in. As we are now talking about a specific Campaign setting, then these core assumptions are rather moot, and nowhere in the quoted article does it state that Eberron is going to follow the core assumptions of the D&D world as laid out in the DMG.
It does reference Points of Light as something that already exists in Eberron.
As stated in the DMG:
Some of these settlements are “points of light” where adventurers can expect peaceful interaction with the inhabitants, but many more are dangerous.
So, it is my understanding that by itself, Points of Light refers to the fact that there are places/settlements that exist where the party can reasonably expect to be safe. Outside of these areas, they should not be surprised if something bad occurs.
So how would this not apply to both Khorvaire (or even Sharn as a previous poster stated)?
Most major cities are Points of Light, and while travel between cities is easy, the danger increases in the remote areas between the cities.
Within Sharn, there area areas where even the guards fear to dread. So the better neighbourhoods may be considered points of light, while the Cogs are the more dangerou area within the city.
you are soooo stretching what the concept of Point of light means..
If you are going to stretch the concept that much..you can fit it in every D&D world ever made!
Look at my post above that goes into the specifics of points of light in reference to Eberron
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I hate dragonborn and think they never should have been in the core books, but it's not a stretch to me they'd show up on Argonessan. Technically, since that's one of the most mysterious locales in the world, they could easily have always been there, it's just now there's some sort of rift where some are leaving and venturing out and everyone's like, "Wth?" It could be part of the prophecy, whatever, that could actually be somewhat interesting.
I'm not a 4e fan, but that kind of thing actually does fit, and I think Wizards probably has a responsibility to explain to the people that bought their new edition where their dragonborn characters fit into the world, rather then say, "They weren't there, so... sorry."
With all that said, points of light does not fit Eberron whatsoever, and I actually laughed when I read them calling it that. I know it's their branding now, but this is one case where it just doesn't fit. At all. Even Drooam is an organized (for them) evil, c'mon now.
If it's their plan to roll out new/old settings in the years to come, I really hope someone comes to their senses and realizes an occasional well-done round peg (with a loyal audience) is a lot better then hacking and chopping it to fit a square hole.
Otherwise, my bookshelf will be completely devoid of 4e stuff, and that's just a bit sad. On the bright side, I scored brand new copies of Secrets of Sarlona and Explorer's Handbook for $6.79 and $4.98 shipped the other day.
Part 1
And they came from? They serve what purpose on Argonessen? And what is their role in Xen'drik? How have they fit into it's history?And keep in mind, answers that use the, "small community recently discovered schtick", won't work, because of how hard they'll be pushed.
Part 2
This is one is worse, here you're suggesting rewriting the history that's been laid out, suddenly Q'barran lizardfolk are dragonborn. And oh, the Gatekeepers are orcs, half-orcs, some humans, and dragonborn (sure they've been here the whole time).
I think I provided several ways to insert the dragonborn into Eberron in a variety of ways from minimal impact to large impact upon the world that didn't resort to " Hey! look at what thing we just found!" As a core race they would have some effect on history of the world. Nor, would it be that outlandish for them to play a role in the prophecy.
As far as rewriting history, dont we as Dm's or players do that all the time? We change facts of the world to suit our needs. Don't like the fact that Myrkul got killed in the time of troubles? etc and so on and so forth. If you don't want Dragonborn in 4e Eberron don't use them, but you did ask how it could be done. We shared some ideas (whether they be bad or good is up to each person).
In 4e Dragonborn once served/worked with/respected Dragons. Its not that far fetched to continue that trend in Eberron. If the saying "An ally of my enemy is an ally" is true, that wouldn't "An ally of an Ally is an ally." hold true as well? Dragonborn in their generic back story would tend to work with Dragons on a daily basis (for whatever reasons be is worship, respect, or force).
As a more monstrous appearing race they would also fit into Droaam (and other less civilized areas) in modern day Eberron. They would be good hired muscles known for being loyal and honor bound ( and during the last war maybe they didn't turn against employers cementing that reputation).
Edit: Also I am not saying you have to use all of the ideas at once. Im just trying to show options.
as David Marks says
Cheers! :)
you are soooo stretching what the concept of Point of light means..If you are going to stretch the concept that much..you can fit it in every D&D world ever made!
Look at my post above that goes into the specifics of points of light in reference to Eberron
Actually, I am going by what Points of Lights are described as in the DMG. I read your post and I agree that the definition of Points of Light presented there does not fit in with Eberron. I was just wondering where those definitions came from? Was this an interview with Rich Baker?
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Actually, I am going by what Points of Lights are described as in the DMG. I read your post and I agree that the definition of Points of Light presented there does not fit in with Eberron. I was just wondering where those definitions came from? Was this an interview with Rich Baker?
you are soooo stretching what the concept of Point of light means..If you are going to stretch the concept that much..you can fit it in every D&D world ever made!
Look at my post above that goes into the specifics of points of light in reference to Eberron
Right here..