PCs have ALWAYS been a cut above everyone else in the core rules.A cut above, yes. But 4e has gone well beyond that. You couldn't create a Chapter 1 Sam Gamgee with the current rules.
My memory is fuzzy and I don't have my 2nd edition books handy, but didn't one of the previous editions have 0th level NPCs?
I know this is a shoehorn fit but why can't you say the fresh off the farm players are level 0? They need 500 (This is purely a rough guess) to get to level 1. They start with only their basic class features, racial powers, and at will powers. Give them half hp, and healing surges. At this point even minions become extremely deadly and the aid of some third party would come to play (keeping with our LOTR theme.. Strider or Tom Bombadil). Once they make it to 1st level they get all of the regular 1st level stuff. Skill challenges are still a feasible source of experience.
Call them Apprentices.
What does everyone think of this as a House Rule attempt to resolve this?
Enjoy!
Azi
I've seen CrossWiredMind post at least three versions of some homerules for creating level 0 4E characters. A lot of the ideas were pretty similar to yours. It's pretty easy to scale the 1st levels down if that is the goal, I think.
Cheers! :)
I've seen CrossWiredMind post at least three versions of some homerules for creating level 0 4E characters. A lot of the ideas were pretty similar to yours. It's pretty easy to scale the 1st levels down if that is the goal, I think.
Cheers! :)
I think a 4e 0 level adventure wouldn't be too hard to construct.
In fact, I may very well be doing so for my first full 4e campaign when I start. Thanks for the tip about CWMs ideas... I think I'll look them over to come up with my plan for them.
I haven't looked at CWM's ideas, but my immediate thought was to agree with the idea that you just take away some of their powers, but I would go the other direction. I would leave the PC with ONLY his daily (or maybe daily and encounter) power. The ability to shoot a magic missile over and over again is the hallmark of a real wizard, not someone who dabbles or is still learning the ropes. The ability to shoot a spray of acid just once, however, is the sort of thing an apprentice might be able to pull off.
So, a 0-level character might have all his attributes lowered by 1, 0 feats (1 for humans), 0 at-wills powers, standard trained skill, 1 encounter power (to symbolize his destined power), and 1 daily power. HP = 8 + Con. Then, when he hits 1st level (I would start him between -750 and -500), he gets a bump in all attributes, a feat, and his at-will powers.
O
I haven't looked at CWM's ideas, but my immediate thought was to agree with the idea that you just take away some of their powers, but I would go the other direction. I would leave the PC with ONLY his daily (or maybe daily and encounter) power. The ability to shoot a magic missile over and over again is the hallmark of a real wizard, not someone who dabbles or is still learning the ropes. The ability to shoot a spray of acid just once, however, is the sort of thing an apprentice might be able to pull off.
So, a 0-level character might have all his attributes lowered by 1, 0 feats (1 for humans), 0 at-wills powers, standard trained skill, 1 encounter power (to symbolize his destined power), and 1 daily power. HP = 8 + Con. Then, when he hits 1st level (I would start him between -750 and -500), he gets a bump in all attributes, a feat, and his at-will powers.
O
I went with 500 due to it being half of 1000.
Maybe a better way to do it is that her class at-will's become encounter powers and her encounter powers become dailies ?
Is it in any way necessary though?
I haven't seen any other threads dealing with this topic so if I'm repeating someone else's idea my appologies.
For folks who want to go with the idea of a pre-heroic tier. Why not design two levels, apprentice and journeyman? The way the powers are set up makes this fairly easy to do. Simply move them over one column if you treat at-will/encounter/daily as a continuum.
Journeyman: Daily: one encounter power available to his/her eventual class
Encounter: one at-will power available to his/her eventual class
-No at-wills
Apprentice: Daily: One at-will power available to his/her eventual class
-Not encounter or at-will powers
There's similar stuff you can do to parcel out hit points, skills, class abilities, defenses, etc.
I've been thinking of pitching something based on this idea to the DI but hadn't noticed that others were already working on it in a public venue. Sigh... :)
You might also need some rules on how to handle each race as less than first level characters too.
You might also need some rules on how to handle each race as less than first level characters too.
Race is race I think. Racial powers are universal and iconic to all members of the race. However, if you want to play the 'become heroic' idea I would say take away one of the +2s to the ability scores.
Is it in any way necessary though?
The idea is you want someone of less than heroic, but mroe than npc. So if that it what you want it would be nice to have.
For folks who want to go with the idea of a pre-heroic tier. Why not design two levels, apprentice and journeyman? The way the powers are set up makes this fairly easy to do. Simply move them over one column if you treat at-will/encounter/daily as a continuum.
I really like the idea of a "two-step" process into the "heroic tier" of gameplay. You could even refer to this as an entirely new tier of play - Apprentice or Journeyman or Commoner - I think any of these work, just use what's best for your campaign.
Also, I like the idea of scaling 1st level powers down as all. Making "at-will" powers into encounter powers, and "encounter" powers into dailies seems like a very elegant solution.
I'd say each character should have one of each - an encounter power and a daily power - in addition to their "at will" basic attacks.
I would also consider not allowing "second winds" or other heroic tier abilities.
Is it in any way necessary though?The idea is you want someone of less than heroic, but mroe than npc. So if that it what you want it would be nice to have.
But you can do it with the stuff as presented in the book, new mechincs or tiers aren't needed.
But you can do it with the stuff as presented in the book, new mechincs or tiers aren't needed.Is it in any way necessary though?The idea is you want someone of less than heroic, but more than npc. So if that it what you want it would be nice to have.
I know. I do not plan to really use this myself. I thought though that it would be a good talking point. Hopefully, it will help the people who want it. Sort of like having the option to put mayo or not on your cheese burger. It's there if you want it.
While I can occasionally see the value of a straight off the farm PC I'd usually avoid them. Most of the ones we see in literature come with some kind of inborn destiny. That destiny provides interesting back grounds and and plot hooks that can be further developed.
Its more difficult in a role playing setting to set that up and have your DM run with it when compared to something like an PC that spent time working in caravans or was trained by a hedge wizard or some such which provides fairly easy hooks for the DM to work with.