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I've been trying to figure out a formula for some time for carrying capacity. The table is nice, but simply having a mathematical formula seems better.
For some time, I've been using Star Wars Saga's rule:
Normal = (.5 x Str Score)Squared
Encumbered = Normal x 2
The weight overall tends to be less than that in the 3.5 table, but the formula is clean.
. . . And then I saw the 4e formula:
Normal = Str Score x 10
Encumbered = Str Score x 20
Lift = Str Score x 50.
Now that is an easy formula to use . . . BUT it really seems to make everyone Atlas.
Str 10 in 3.5 light = 33
Str 10 in 4e light = 100
Thoughts?
Whoa!
Nobody is ever going to be encumbered.
No need to record weight.
In my experience the characters are generally not encumbered (most spellcasters), or weighed down anyway by armor (most fighters), making no difference at all. This has lead to a fairly lax enforcement of the encumbrance rules: since its happened almost never, I tend to just use common sense.
The fighter can lug around his heavy armor and big sword, but he cant lug around a gold statue. In that rare instance, I'd check the table to see how many people it would take to slowly push it around.
Of course, even this method is dismissed once the party hits about 5th level and gets a bag of holding.
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hide armor 25 lbs.
light shield 6 lbs.
long sword 4 lbs
dagger 1 lb
long bow 3lbs
30 arrows 3lbs
adventurers kit 33 lbs
50 GP 1 lb
so this kind of typical load for a light fighter is 76 lbs
chainmail 40 lbs
heavy shield 15 lbs
mace 6 lbs
dagger 1 lb
crossbow 4 lbs
20 bolts 2lbs
adventurers kit 33 lbs
holy symbol 1 lb
50 gp 1 lb
typical cleric load 103 lbs
People will become encumbered.
Has anyone in here ever lugged 80 lbs up a mountain? Try fighting while lugging it.
I'm pretty strong and 80 lbs slows me down a lot.
CWM, defend it to your death, fine. I like the game but the encumbrance rate is ridiculous.
Was the carrying capacity specifically listed in pounds?
I know that in other editions and games the value represents a mix of an item's weight AND its size/bulk/unwieldiness as a quantified abstract value.
In d20 Modern, a framed backpack adds +1 or +2 to your Strength score for the purposes of encumbrance. Maybe 4th Edition takes that into consideration for you? I dunno.
And are there different formulas for 4 legged critters and Large critters?
What's in your 33 pound adventurer's kit?
Hmm. Let's see...
Standard Adventurer’s Kit: This kit includes all the items grouped beneath its entry on the table: a backpack, a bedroll, flint and steel, a belt pouch, two sunrods, ten days’ worth of trail rations, 50 feet of hempen rope, and a waterskin.
Yup, 33 lbs is about right. ;-)
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Has anyone in here ever lugged 80 lbs up a mountain? Try fighting while lugging it.
I'm pretty strong and 80 lbs slows me down a lot.
CWM, defend it to your death, fine. I like the game but the encumbrance rate is ridiculous.
I agree. My point was not to defend the ENC rules but to point out that they are not excessive given the weight of a typical load carried by most PCs.
I have fought in mail, full helm, large shield, and sword. It sucks ... big time.
I have also loaded out with a three day pack and gear that topped out at close to 100 pounds and that sucked too.
But D&D is so far from being able to handle realism in its ENC rules. However, it does well enough in context to keep PCs from loading up with heavy armor, heavy shield, six different weapons, and all of their other crap.
I am always amazed when I GM Living Greayhawk and force my players to get their load down to match the speed they want to move in combat. The may not like it but i do it anyway.
I agree that it's unrealistic, but I kind of like the rule for a couple reasons:
- It's simple
- Adventurers cannot stack up to a ridiculous amount.
I actually have lugged an 80 lbs. backpack up a mountain while hiking the Colorado Trail. First couple weeks - slow and painful. After a month, I'm doing much better. Still, 100 lbs. without speed impediments is not realistic. However, I've never really seen a satisfactory encumbrance system in any game. I don't think it's possible, so often less is more.
I've been trying to figure out a formula for some time for carrying capacity. The table is nice, but simply having a mathematical formula seems better.
For some time, I've been using Star Wars Saga's rule:
Normal = (.5 x Str Score)Squared
Encumbered = Normal x 2The weight overall tends to be less than that in the 3.5 table, but the formula is clean.
. . . And then I saw the 4e formula:
Normal = Str Score x 10
Encumbered = Str Score x 20
Lift = Str Score x 50.Now that is an easy formula to use . . . BUT it really seems to make everyone Atlas.
Str 10 in 3.5 light = 33
Str 10 in 4e light = 100Thoughts?
Actually, the formula you presented is wrong. The correct formula is:
Normal: Str score x 10
Lift: Str score x 20
Push/drag: Str score x 50
The point is, there is no light load on 4E. In order to carry anything more than a normal load (Strenght x 10), a character becomes slowed (speed 2) and need both hands to carry its stuff, so it's already unable to fight.
On 3.5E, a character can carry up to heavy load (100 lb. for a Str 10 character), and has speed and armor check penalties, but otherwise can fight as well as a unemcubered character.
So, the amount of load a Str 10 character can carry and still fight are exactly the same on 4E and 3.5E (100 lb.). The maximum lift off the ground is also the same on both editions (200 lb.)
Now, a character with Str 20 character can actually carry more on 3.5 than on 4E (350 lb vs. 200 lb).
The Player's Handbookk for 4E D&D is not nearly as well written as, say, 2E. I had to look up on the internet what the starting gold was!
I recall startying Gold sometimes being pretty complex in 2E. Its different per class IIRC and that might be modified by things like the kit you took or other rules as the edition wore on.
Like everything else in 4E, the ruleset has been streamlined and covers the basics, but feel free to modify it. I have more difficulties with the level of items provided as a standard for monsters. So my focus as as DM is to flesh out what creatures carry, or what other mundane items may be available in a dungeon or setting. You will soon discover most characters are pack rats, and no matter what the encumbrance system is, they will tend to push it to the limits.
I once asked one of my 4e players to draw me a diagram showing exactly where he was carrying all his weapons and gear... Funny
Actually, the formula you presented is wrong. The correct formula is:
Normal: Str score x 10
Lift: Str score x 20
Push/drag: Str score x 50The point is, there is no light load on 4E. In order to carry anything more than a normal load (Strenght x 10), a character becomes slowed (speed 2) and need both hands to carry its stuff, so it's already unable to fight.
On 3.5E, a character can carry up to heavy load (100 lb. for a Str 10 character), and has speed and armor check penalties, but otherwise can fight as well as a unemcubered character.
So, the amount of load a Str 10 character can carry and still fight are exactly the same on 4E and 3.5E (100 lb.). The maximum lift off the ground is also the same on both editions (200 lb.)
Now, a character with Str 20 character can actually carry more on 3.5 than on 4E (350 lb vs. 200 lb).
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's not let our facts get in the way of our 4E bashing. You can take your "reason" and "logic" somewhere else, buddy.
As I understand it, standard load for an American infantryman these days is about 70 lbs. And they're expected to march quite a few miles with it too.
Even in the Air Force that's pretty standard. When we qualify on the M9 and M16, we do it in a flack jacket with a gas mask on. It's more difficult and uncomfortable, but not as insurmountable as internet physics "experts" would have you believe.