I'm confused about how the Pathfinder Chronicles Gazetteer differs in content from what will appear in the upcoming hardcover Campaign Setting book. Based on the vague product descriptions it sounds as though everything in the Gazetteer will be in the campaign setting. How much, if any, of the Gazetteer will be unique and how much will be reprinted in the campaign setting?
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I'm confused about how the Pathfinder Chronicles Gazetteer differs in content from what will appear in the upcoming hardcover Campaign Setting book. Based on the vague product descriptions it sounds as though everything in the Gazetteer will be in the campaign setting. How much, if any, of the Gazetteer will be unique and how much will be reprinted in the campaign setting?
The Gazeteer is a first look of the world as a whole. It is also 100% player friendly. Basically, (this might not be really true, but this is how it feels) they gave the writers the gazeteer information and said "build off this" for most of the articles that are included in both.
This has been covered in a few threads already:
Pathfinder Hardcover this August... @ 49.99???
and
Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting (OGL) Hardcover
Post again to this thread if those threads aren't addressing your specific concerns.
Thanks!
This has been covered in a few threads already:
Pathfinder Hardcover this August... @ 49.99???
and
Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting (OGL) Hardcover
Post again to this thread if those threads aren't addressing your specific concerns.
Thanks!
Do you seriously expect me to read several hundred posts (there were 314 in one thread alone) to find out information that should be in the product description to begin with? I really don't mean to sound snarky, but I'm not willing to spend half my day trying to get an answer to a simple question.
All I got from a quick peruse of the threads was that the Gazetteer was a first look at the setting. This doesn't tell me much.
Please don't be offended, because I really do like the Pathfinder material that I've seen so far, but you have so much product coming out so quickly that it is very difficult to figure out what is what - and the product descriptions can vary from vague to outright useless. I read one recently (I can't remember for which product) that went on and on with cooking metaphors such as "basted in creative juices" and such, and offered virtually no substantive information about the product.
I want to want this stuff, but I've only got so much money and have to choose carefully what to buy. Please meet me half way and provide me with enough qualitative information to make an informed decision and leave meaningless bafflegab to the politicians.
Thanks!
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All I got from a quick peruse of the threads was that the Gazetteer was a first look at the setting. This doesn't tell me much.
It is an overview of the setting. It has some basic info on the races, calendars, nations, and the gods. I equate it to the original Greyhawk folio or boxed set. A nice thumbnail sketch of what to expect from the setting. It is a good read and gives some great insight into the history, politics, and social mores of the setting.
The hardcover will expand on that info (and then some) and weigh in at over 256 pages versus the gazetter's 64 pages. I assume it will look a great deal like your standard hardcover setting product, not unlike 3e Forgotten Realms. Some info might be repeated but you can expect expansions on what was presented in the Gazetteer.
Does that help?
It is an overview of the setting. It has some basic info on the races, calendars, nations, and the gods. I equate it to the original Greyhawk folio or boxed set. A nice thumbnail sketch of what to expect from the setting. It is a good read and gives some great insight into the history, politics, and social mores of the setting.
The hardcover will expand on that info and weigh in at over 256 pages versus the gazetter's 64 pages. I assume it will look a great deal like your standard hardcover setting product, not unlike 3e Forgotten Realms. Some info might be repeated but you can expect expansions on what was presented in the Gazetteer.
Does that help?
Yes, thanks very much. What I really want to know though, is how much overlap there will be, which only the folks at Paizo can tell us. Is the Gazetteer a thumbnail sketch that will be elaborated on in the campaign setting, or does it cover in greater detail what will only be treated cursorily in the campaign setting? If the former, then I'll wait for the campaign setting, if the latter then I'd be willing to buy it.
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Yes, thanks very much. What I really want to know though, is how much overlap there will be, which only the folks at Paizo can tell us. Is the Gazetteer a thumbnail sketch that will be elaborated on in the campaign setting, or does it cover in greater detail what will only be treated cursorily in the campaign setting? If the former, then I'll wait for the campaign setting, if the latter then I'd be willing to buy it.
Ahhh....yes. Of that I am uncertain. I do know the Gazetteer is much more player friendly than the hardcover. At least that is what I read. I would imagine that is unchanged. With that in mind it might be worth it to have a copy of the Gazetteer for player use. But as to the crux of your question, you are right, only the Paizo folks can answer for certain.
I do know the Gazetteer is much more player friendly than the hardcover. At least that is what I read. I would imagine that is unchanged. With that in mind it might be worth it to have a copy of the Gazetteer for player use.
Thanks very much, Alleyn. If this is the case, I'll likely give it a pass, pending clarification from someone in the know at Paizo. I like to customize campaign settings to my own tastes and make them my own, and the end result will be quite a bit different than the published product so a book for the players won't be very useful in my case.
Contributor
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The gazetteer and hardcover are about as player friendly and GM friendly as the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting hardcover, which we generally consider to be the best CS hardcover put out to date. So if you thought the FRCS was well-balanced for both players and GMs you should also like how we approach the PCCS. :)
In other words, there's plenty in the PCCS hardcover for players, but there's also a tonne for GMs. :)
The gazetteer and hardcover are about as player friendly and GM friendly as the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting hardcover, which we generally consider to be the best CS hardcover put out to date. So if you thought the FRCS was well-balanced for both players and GMs you should also like how we approach the PCCS. :)
In other words, there's plenty in the PCCS hardcover for players, but there's also a tonne for GMs. :)
Okay, now I'm really confused. Both the gazetteer and PFCS hardcover are equally GM/player friendly. So what, if anything does the gazetteer include that the hardcover won't. I understand that the hardcover is going to have lots more stuff in it than the gazetteer, but is there any purpose in buying the gazetteer if you are going to buy the hardcover?
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The gazetteer and hardcover are about as player friendly and GM friendly as the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting hardcover, which we generally consider to be the best CS hardcover put out to date. So if you thought the FRCS was well-balanced for both players and GMs you should also like how we approach the PCCS. :)
In other words, there's plenty in the PCCS hardcover for players, but there's also a tonne for GMs. :)
So would you say there is an equal amount of player/GM information in both products?
I have not finished reading the Gazetteer so I ask, would you feel comfortable throwing the Gazetteer at a player? Could it work as a player's guide? I am only working from things I read on the boards so I guess I am uncertain.
On the other hand, is the player vs. GM information in the hardcover specifically spelled out in some way?
Are there major "secrets" revealed or plot points ruined in either product. I haven't come across anything that might qualify as a "spoiler" in the Gazetteer. At least nothing I wouldn't expect a well educated character to know at least in passing. Am I missing something and should I be more careful with the Gazetteer?
I did think the FRCS was fantastically well-balanced with its information but I wouldn't let players have free reign with it. So if the hardcover follows in that tradition that will make me happy. And I agree that FRCS is probably the best CS hardcover I have ever seen. I never really cared for the Realms but that book made me want to explore the world further.
Teach me oh mighty McArtor! :)
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Okay, now I'm really confused. Both the gazetteer and PFCS hardcover are equally GM/player friendly. So what, if anything does the gazetteer include that the hardcover won't. I understand that the hardcover is going to have lots more stuff in it than the gazetteer, but is there any purpose in buying the gazetteer if you are going to buy the hardcover?
From the first thread Josh licked above - 10th post:
So then it begs to question: Why would someone want to buy the Gazetteer or the Darkmoon Vale Guide (june) if all the info will also be in the hardcover come August?The Gazetteer is our first look at the campaign setting. It's also our only currently available look at our campaign setting. Originally these were scheduled to be released six months apart but, alas, that didn't end up being the case.
The Pathfinder Chronicles guide books (such as Guide to Korvosa, Guide to Darkmoon Vale, etc.) cover a great deal of additional information about their subject then we could fit into the 256-page campaign setting hardcover. Where you might get a 1/2 page (and, no, this isn't exact--I didn't edit the book) on the Darkmoon Vale in the campaign setting hardcover, the Pathfinder Chronicles Guide to Darkmoon Vale gives you 64-pages of Darkmoon Vale goodness, including comprehensive local maps, NPCs, locations, etc.
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So would you say there is an equal amount of player/GM information in both products?
I would say there's a slight lean toward GM information, but that is with the caveat that it is our belief that anything players can use the GM can use. In other words, the entire book is useful for GMs. There are sections that are not useful for players, like a short section on trade, and one on climate, and like that. Stuff a GM might want to know but isn't useful for players.
I have not finished reading the Gazetteer so I ask, would you feel comfortable throwing the Gazetteer at a player? Could it work as a player's guide? I am only working from things I read on the boards so I guess I am uncertain.
Yes I would. Now, keep in mind that some of the nation entries do talk about the major bad guys in those nations, and some of that information might be considered spoilery if you want to do some kind of surprise using that major bad guy. The entry on Razmiran, for example, might be considered spoilery.
The problem with campaign settings is that the information is out there because it has to be, so there will be players who know all about the setting and its secrets. On the other hand, most players won't bother reading through a campaign setting book and so won't know (or in many cases care) about a nation's major plotlines.
On the other hand, is the player vs. GM information in the hardcover specifically spelled out in some way?
Not really. There are parts specifically aimed at GMs (like some of the macro-level world info stuff), but none of it is really spoilery unless you were planning on running a campaign based on some secret.
Are there major "secrets" revealed or plot points ruined in either product. I haven't come across anything that might qualify as a "spoiler" in the Gazetteer. At least nothing I wouldn't expect a well educated character to know at least in passing. Am I missing something and should I be more careful with the Gazetteer?
There are a couple of secrets revealed in the Gaz and hardcover, but in all honesty the secrets are not well-kept. There's nothing in here that a 9th-level cleric couldn't find out with one spell, for example.
I did think the FRCS was fantastically well-balanced with its information but I wouldn't let players have free reign with it. So if the hardcover follows in that tradition that will make me happy. And I agree that FRCS is probably the best CS hardcover I have ever seen. I never really cared for the Realms but that book made me want to explore the world further.
Your paragraph echoes my thoughts so completely it scares me. ;)
Teach me oh mighty McArtor! :)
Nice try. Nice try. ;)
From the first thread Josh licked above - 10th post:
So then it begs to question: Why would someone want to buy the Gazetteer or the Darkmoon Vale Guide (june) if all the info will also be in the hardcover come August?The Gazetteer is our first look at the campaign setting. It's also our only currently available look at our campaign setting. Originally these were scheduled to be released six months apart but, alas, that didn't end up being the case.
Unfortunately, this doesn't answer my question. Reading between the lines though, it appears that there is nothing in the Gazetteer that won't be in the hardcover and the ONLY reason to buy the gazetteer is if you absolutely can't wait until August or don't want to spend $50 for the full setting.
I really wish that someone would confirm or deny this. I'm at a loss as to why everyone from Paizo is being so evasive about this and will not give a straight answer.
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I would say there's a slight lean toward GM information, but that is with the caveat that it is our belief that anything players can use the GM can use. In other words, the entire book is useful for GMs. There are sections that are not useful for players, like a short section on trade, and one on climate, and like that. Stuff a GM might want to know but isn't useful for players.
Sounds good. I agree, when I look at a CS I consider everything in it to be valuable to the GM while other stuff might hold varying levels of interest for players. So perhaps my use of the GM/Player dichotomy is a bit false. Or, more accurately, could be better defined.
Let me say I am very happy to hear there will be info on trade, climate, and what not. That kind of stuff is real nice to see. The world builder in me feels all warm and fuzzy.
Yes I would. Now, keep in mind that some of the nation entries do talk about the major bad guys in those nations, and some of that information might be considered spoilery if you want to do some kind of surprise using that major bad guy. The entry on Razmiran, for example, might be considered spoilery.The problem with campaign settings is that the information is out there because it has to be, so there will be players who know all about the setting and its secrets. On the other hand, most players won't bother reading through a campaign setting book and so won't know (or in many cases care) about a nation's major plotlines.
Once again, sounds good. I can feel pretty confident in letting players read the gazetteer then. I am really excited to see what the hardcover has to offer. You guys have my players and myself hooked.
Your paragraph echoes my thoughts so completely it scares me. ;)
(turns the knob on his McArtor Mind Reading Device up to 11)
Yikes! Ninja Catgirls. Let me turn that back down. :)
Nice try. Nice try. ;)
Curses! Does this make up for it?
It's called "spin," Sean. It's in our best interest to put everything we say and do in the best possible light. :)
Yeah, I know.
I was really hoping for a little less spin and a little more honesty though. You have a loyal following, myself included, but that loyalty is really put to the test when we can't trust you to be honest and forthright in your product descriptions. Most of us can't afford to buy everything that you produce, so we really need to know what we're buying in order to make an informed decision. Would you rather make one sale and lose a dissatisfied customer who didn't get what he was expecting or lose a sale and gain a loyal customer who will make dozens of purchases in the future?
As an example, If someone from Paizo had had the decency to give me a straight answer to my question I would have decided which product I wanted, bought it and happily continued to buy more things from you for many years to come. Unfortunately because you all tried to "play" me and go for the quick sale I probably won't purchase either product, will likely cancel my Pathfinder subscription and take my business to company that respects me and won't insult my intelligence this way.
I'm very disappointed in you all - I expected a whole lot better from a company of Paizo's reputation for valuing their customers. :(
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I don't feel played. Bought the Gazetteer, and will by the Campaign Guide. This has been discussed on two threads already, but basically, the Gaz gives a basic sketch of Golarion, its races, basic classes, chronology, gods, and a blurb on most of the "countries" in Avistan and Garund, only two continents of the world.
I think it is player friendly. It is rules light, and has interesting options for classes in certain regions, very nice side bars on the different human ethnicities, and the basics if a GM wants to start a game in the world.
It makes me really look forward to the Campaign Guide.
As an example, If someone from Paizo had had the decency to give me a straight answer to my question I would have decided which product I wanted, bought it and happily continued to buy more things from you for many years to come.
Cpt_kristov was nice enough to quote a section of the thread you chose not to read concerning the Gazetteer's content not six posts up. If money is a concern, save it and get the hardcover in August. If you can't wait, then get the Gazetteer.
I just saw this thread again.
Hoo-boy.
Sean, I appreciate that you don't want to re-read the threads I linked above. In the product discussion thread I posted the following on Thursday, March 20:
Is this just a better version of the Pathfinder Chronicles: Gazetteer? Or does the Gazetteer contain info that will not be reprinted. I guess what i really want to know is, Do I need to buy the gazetteer if im going to buy the hardcover?I think of it this way: the Gazetteer is a preview of the hardcover--an opportunity for you to get some information on our world now and a more comprehensive look at our world in August. To the best of my knowledge, nearly everything in the Gazetteer will be in the hardcover. The Gazetteer is, however, the first time we've ever released a poster map of the focus of our campaign setting: the continents of Garund and Avistan.
Alas, these two products were supposed to be six months apart in the original plan. The Gazetteer was delayed for a number of reasons and unfortunately pushed them closer together.
No spin. (And I think Mike was joking -- we're not a spin company. We're a shoot-from-the-hip, no jive-talkin', customer friendly bunch o' folks.) Sorry it took so long for us to give you the answer you were looking for.
What we won't do is make up your mind for you, though. :-)
Cpt_kristov was nice enough to quote a section of the thread you chose not to read concerning the Gazetteer's content not six posts up. If money is a concern, save it and get the hardcover in August. If you can't wait, then get the Gazetteer.
Which didn't answer my question, as I pointed out in a reply that you chose not to read before involving yourself in the issue.
From what I gather, the Hardcover is a general overall look at everything, while the Gazatteers are an in depth look at a specific areas. Either way, I have enjoyed the Gazatteer and will buy the others. As for the Hardcover, I will also check it out. If it is not up to my standards, well... I guess I will be making some Bronze Dragon Hide armor a bit afterwards. ~grins~ So the Hardcover had better be good, Mike. Or you will be armor!
Yeah, I know.I was really hoping for a little less spin and a little more honesty though. You have a loyal following, myself included, but that loyalty is really put to the test when we can't trust you to be honest and forthright in your product descriptions. Most of us can't afford to buy everything that you produce, so we really need to know what we're buying in order to make an informed decision. Would you rather make one sale and lose a dissatisfied customer who didn't get what he was expecting or lose a sale and gain a loyal customer who will make dozens of purchases in the future?
As an example, If someone from Paizo had had the decency to give me a straight answer to my question I would have decided which product I wanted, bought it and happily continued to buy more things from you for many years to come. Unfortunately because you all tried to "play" me and go for the quick sale I probably won't purchase either product, will likely cancel my Pathfinder subscription and take my business to company that respects me and won't insult my intelligence this way.
I'm very disappointed in you all - I expected a whole lot better from a company of Paizo's reputation for valuing their customers. :(
Dude.. the two products got pushed closer together than intended, and I'm sure nobody wanted the schedule to turn out that way.
Having said that, I'm not going to be a fanboi and criticize you personally... but I'd like to point out that the Editorial Department of this company is one of the most personally accessible in the gaming industry. You have a question, a concern, or just want to bounce ideas- as quickly as any sane workload permits, they're online talking to the consumers. That's value that is *NEVER* quantified by folks when they get upset. Their time has value, and by god they're pretty generous with it really.
These people care if the product is fun and useful, and they do the best they can.. and in this particular instance, time caught up to them and they're making the best of it. If you're strapped for cash, take a pass on the product and wait for the one you want.
But this perception that you've somehow been betrayed is really disproportionate to the situation.
Which didn't answer my question, as I pointed out in a reply that you chose not to read before involving yourself in the issue.
Pardon me for trying to assist in your confusion - I thought the answer was pretty self-explanatory, as well as the other ones that have been provided. Apparently I was mistaken.
I just saw this thread again.
I think of it this way: the Gazetteer is a preview of the hardcover--an opportunity for you to get some information on our world now and a more comprehensive look at our world in August. To the best of my knowledge, nearly everything in the Gazetteer will be in the hardcover. The Gazetteer is, however, the first time we've ever released a poster map of the focus of our campaign setting: the continents of Garund and Avistan.
Alas, these two products were supposed to be six months apart in the original plan. The Gazetteer was delayed for a number of reasons and unfortunately pushed them closer together.
No spin. (And I think Mike was joking -- we're not a spin company. We're a shoot-from-the-hip, no jive-talkin', customer friendly bunch o' folks.) Sorry it took so long for us to give you the answer you were looking for.
What we won't do is make up your mind for you, though. :-)
Thanks Joshua, that answers my question. Sorry for being so curt previously, but two days of banging my head against the wall was making it hurt and wearing my patience awfully thin. I'm relieved that you haven't all turned into a traveling band of snake-oil salesmen (though I do wish that Mike could have just answered my question instead of making my head explode :)0.
I don't ask you to make up my mind, just give me the info so I can do it myself. Thanks again - you've saved the day and kept a customer.
Having said that, I'm not going to be a fanboi and criticize you personally... but I'd like to point out that the Editorial Department of this company is one of the most personally accessible in the gaming industry. You have a question, a concern, or just want to bounce ideas- as quickly as any sane workload permits, they're online talking to the consumers. That's value that is *NEVER* quantified by folks when they get upset. Their time has value, and by god they're pretty generous with it really.
I hear what you're saying Watcher, but this wasn't an issue of me being impatient because I didn't get an immediate response, Joshua and Mike replied (several times) and avoided answering what I thought was a simple and perfectly reasonable question.
That question may have been answered before on other threads, but I don't have the time or inclination to slog through hundreds of posts to find out basic information about the product.
The issue is resolved now though, and its all good. But if it becomes burdensome for the staff to respond to product queries, particularly if they're getting the same queries over and over, they could save a lot of time by writing up more thorough product descriptions.
Anyway, I appreciate you not engaging in a personal attack against me - I was expecting to have to don a nomex suit to protect me from the flames of rabid fanboyz (and girlz) that embark on jihads the moment anyone criticizes Paizo. Cheers!
Anyway, I appreciate you not engaging in a personal attack against me - I was expecting to have to don a nomex suit to protect me from the flames of rabid fanboyz (and girlz) that embark on jihads the moment anyone criticizes Paizo. Cheers!
::nod:: Cheers. Perhaps just letting this be is best.