The leukodaemon rocked.
And I'll second the suggestion of seeing more. :D
[And down with Wake Forest. UNC rules.]
As long as you don't hold it against us if we still call 'em Yugoloths at home.
-W. E. Ray
Daemon operatives will shortly be dispatched to your home to torture that nonsense out of your minds.
Please note that the torturing sessions may be recorded for training purposes, so please scream directly at the camera.
Demons and devils have Lamashtu and Asmodeus, respectively, as examples of the breed who've made the leap to true godhood. Are the Horsemen gods, and if not (or even if), are there any other daemon-gods?
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As long as you don't hold it against us if we still call 'em Yugoloths at home.
-W. E. Ray
Daemon operatives will shortly be dispatched to your home to torture that nonsense out of your minds.
Please note that the torturing sessions may be recorded for training purposes, so please scream directly at the camera.
Its good to see these sessions being recorded for future generations! LOL
Creative Director
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Demons and devils have Lamashtu and Asmodeus, respectively, as examples of the breed who've made the leap to true godhood. Are the Horsemen gods, and if not (or even if), are there any other daemon-gods?
While none of the core 20 deities are daemons... that doesn't mean there weren't daemon gods in the past or won't be in the future. For now, all we've revealed about the daemon lords, though, are the four Horsemen.
In my homebrew the chief daemon lords include the Four Horsemen, the Master of the Wild Hunt, Baba Yaga (as Queen of the Night Hags), and Abaddon/Appollyon and his locust daemons. I chose not to make the last ones demons because they are solely interested in the final destruction of the universe and care nothing for law or chaos - only evil.
Hey, will the basic daemons be included in the Pathfinder Bestiary, i.e. purro, thano, leuka, (famine?) and maybe astradaemon too?
I hope so, as they would really be a great inclusion to cement the daemons place as an important part of the fiend diaspora and a force to be reckoned with on the outer planes, all other planes will have at least some representative in the book, only fair that Abaddon does too.
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Creative Director
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Hey, will the basic daemons be included in the Pathfinder Bestiary, i.e. purro, thano, leuka, (famine?) and maybe astradaemon too?
I hope so, as they would really be a great inclusion to cement the daemons place as an important part of the fiend diaspora and a force to be reckoned with on the outer planes, all other planes will have at least some representative in the book, only fair that Abaddon does too.
The daemons are unlikely to be in the first Bestiary, alas. We don't want to include just a few, but instead a big batch of an outsider exemplar race when we do them, and with devils and demons and angels and genies and a few more already in the queue, there'll probably not be room for the daemons in the first Bestairy. If they don't get in there, though, they'll absolutely be in the second Bestiary!
The daemons are unlikely to be in the first Bestiary, alas. We don't want to include just a few, but instead a big batch of an outsider exemplar race when we do them, and with devils and demons and angels and genies and a few more already in the queue, there'll probably not be room for the daemons in the first Bestairy. If they don't get in there, though, they'll absolutely be in the second Bestiary!
Just like in 1st edition . . . ;)
Hey, will the basic daemons be included in the Pathfinder Bestiary, i.e. purro, thano, leuka, (famine?) and maybe astradaemon too?
I hope so, as they would really be a great inclusion to cement the daemons place as an important part of the fiend diaspora and a force to be reckoned with on the outer planes, all other planes will have at least some representative in the book, only fair that Abaddon does too.
You'll see some more daemon stats before that point. At least two - pending edits in the Great Beyond, and the Vault of Souls module. :)
and maybe astradaemon too?
The astradaemon is an interesting critter, mostly because it's a CR 15'ish specialized fiend that began its life as something a tad different. Started out as a CR 25'ish soul-devouring killbot empowered by the willing sacrifice of a greater yugoloth. Hopefully the reimagined Golarion critter won't turn PCs into lunchmeat like the original versions did. I liked the look of the critter, and it was a nice adaptation to Golarion's rather unique vision of daemons compared to yugoloths.
Last time I used the original ones:
Me DM'ing: "Ok, she's down a dozen negative levels, and it has her grappled as it planeshifts."
Player: "I grab on and follow."
Me: *facepalm* "It's cold for a moment, and then you're bathed in a harsh ultraviolet glow, with a subtle red light leaching up from the ground and walls that appear to be made of a wriggling mass of mortal souls. Welcome to Carceri."
@ James Jacobs:-
Cool, thanks for answering my questions.
I'll have to buy both now, sounds like you'll be including marid and dao in it though. Which is good, as many of the spirits and outsiders mentioned in the great beyond section of the campaign ssetting as can be included would be great.
(I mean of those not already in the MM that is).
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Creative Director
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@ James Jacobs:-
Cool, thanks for answering my questions.I'll have to buy both now, sounds like you'll be including marid and dao in it though. Which is good, as many of the spirits and outsiders mentioned in the great beyond section of the campaign ssetting as can be included would be great.
(I mean of those not already in the MM that is).
Marid is likely, dao is not, since dao are not open content. I'd like to include genies from all four elements in the genie section, in any case, which means efreeti, djinni, marids, and our replacements for the dao, the shaitan genies, would consist of the genie section (along with the janni, of course) in the book.
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I'd like to include genies from all four elements in the genie section, in any case, which means efreeti, djinni, marids, and our replacements for the dao, the shaitan genies...
Shaitan as earth genies? Interesting. Shaitan is Arabic for Satan, means "adversary." (In Islam mythology Satan was a genie who refused to bow down before Adam when ordered to by God and was cast out of Heavan for it.) Does it have another meaning tying it to elemental earth?
The Bartimaeus books by Jonathan Stroud - where magic is powered enslaved genies - calls earth genies 'foliots.' I googled the term and came up with nothing so I don't know what it's based on.
EDIT: Upon a little further research, the problem may be that Jinn were creatures of air and water and fire, and the creatures of earth were ... humans. Hmmm...
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Director of Narrative
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Shaitan as earth genies? Interesting. Shaitan is Arabic for Satan, means "adversary." (In Islam mythology Satan was a genie who refused to bow down before Adam when ordered to by God and was cast out of Heavan for it.) Does it have another meaning tying it to elemental earth?
Using Shaitan for a monster seemed a bit odd to me as well. As a minor correction, some might find it offensive to refer to Islam as a mythology. The three main Abrahamic faiths share the same Old Testament, which is one of the reasons I found the use of Shaitan a bit odd. It is the same as creating a devil type called a Satan or a Lucifer. The meaning is the same, it is just the language that is different (as you mentioned above). Shaitan is the serpent who tempted Adam in the Garden and all, however, Iblis was the jinn who was cast out. (God created three types: Angels, Jinn and Humans.) Then again, as Lucifer and Satan, over the millennium, have been blended into the same being, so has Iblis and Shaitan.
Through many years of the stories and a handful of language changes throughout the stories, some of the names have been blurred. I've been doing a ton of Persian/Avestan/Zoroastran research lately and have come across many derivations depending on the translator, so maybe this won't be too 'real world', as only ancient religious researchers and, of course, Muslims will notice the connection.
Edit: I'm not trying to stir some religious discussion in all of this, as we all know there has been enough of that kinda stuff in our game, much of which leads to a detriment instead of a benefit.
But the same could be said of many of the Archdevils and Demon Lords and their names, Mammon, Asmodeus, Baphomet, Pazuzu etc.
I like it, and I knew before but had forgotten and didn't have the book handy at the time to remember dao are a no.
Shaitan look cool, were on the blog a little while ago, the name suits their tyrannical, underground empire and opposition to efreet, adversary monsters to be sure.
Also, borrowing the cultural names of demons like that gives a tone and feel that no amount of description or art could ever truly convey, while Satan and Lucifer (too a lesser extent) have become such loose often comical concepts that they would be deterimental to a creatures street rep, if you will. It ranks up there with flumph and were-adorabunny.
Well, that's my two cents.
Your very free to disagree, just call 'em dao in your own games (as paizo officially can't), or whatever your preference is, you know more about the mythology of the area so you can probably find a great name.
Hell, I've already reimagined my devils and many of the extraplanar races, keeping paizo's planes but replacing the First World with Tuatha (celtic/nordic influenced fey world of Fensir, say'ri (CN eladrin/azatas), and fey), and placing it in Maelstrom (renamed Rim) and I added the Far Realm, which I've always liked.
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As a minor correction, some might find it offensive to refer to Islam as a mythology.
Good clarification of Shaitan vs. Iblis. And thanks for the sensitivity check, as well; I tend to refer to all religions explanations of the universe as mythologies (including Christianity) to keep them on an equal footing. I'm sure the Greeks were 100% positive they were right, too. But is there a better word, something between 'mythology' and 'the truth' that gives both respect and bit of outside perspective?
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Creative Director
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I'd like to include genies from all four elements in the genie section, in any case, which means efreeti, djinni, marids, and our replacements for the dao, the shaitan genies...Shaitan as earth genies? Interesting. Shaitan is Arabic for Satan, means "adversary." (In Islam mythology Satan was a genie who refused to bow down before Adam when ordered to by God and was cast out of Heavan for it.) Does it have another meaning tying it to elemental earth?
The Bartimaeus books by Jonathan Stroud - where magic is powered enslaved genies - calls earth genies 'foliots.' I googled the term and came up with nothing so I don't know what it's based on.
EDIT: Upon a little further research, the problem may be that Jinn were creatures of air and water and fire, and the creatures of earth were ... humans. Hmmm...
We've got a sidebar about the origins of the shaitan myth in Pathfinder #18 where we first stat up the shaitan genie. I suspect that the Bartimaeus book version of earth genies are invented by Stroud, and that's not really something we can build off of in the same way we can build off of mythology.
There's not much tying the shaitan to elemental earth in myth, but then again, none of the D&D genies are perfect translations of their original myths.
