Hello,
does anybody have some clues if the monk will make it now to the 4th Edition or not?I hade to speculate.
I have seen many different post from wotc.But nobody could give a real answer.Some said: all classes will appear someday or no not a martial striker. That did not design class yet....
So somebody knows something i don´t?
kindly regards Julien.
There has certainly been concept art for a monk in the Races and Classes preview book.
It's not certain if they will appear in PHB2.
I hope not.
Or rather I hope that if they do they are introduced in a context that is appropriate - not Kwai Chang Kane in a European setting.
I always hated the context of monks in a campaign setting modelled on European archtypes - keep monks and ninja and samurai in Asian flavored areas - I know there may be travellers from faraway lands, heck even alien planes - but not for "base" classes.
I rarely if ever saw a monk played well as a PC or NPC.
I would much rather see (for a european type backdrop) hand to hand fighting feats, skills, powers, that could be adopted.
If the rest weren't clear - the answer to your question appears to be, "Not for at least another year."
I always hated the context of monks in a campaign setting modelled on European archtypes - keep monks and ninja and samurai in Asian flavored areas - I know there may be travellers from faraway lands, heck even alien planes - but not for "base" classes.
I agree.
I always thought monks were shoehorned into D&D. 2/e tried to throw them out, but public outcry eventually won.
IMO an arguably better approach is to allow some feat/skill options that permit appropriate fighter builds. I think classes should be generic jumping-off points for characters. The monk has never been very generic.
Besides, now all you monk-lovers will have to buy at least one more book. Never underestimate the cunning of WotC.
Besides, now all you monk-lovers will have to buy at least one more book. Never underestimate the cunning of WotC.
Well.. but I'd rather have a PHB with 8 classes, 500 class powers, 150 feats, and progression up to level 30... than a PHB with 11 classes which doesn't provide even enough feats to fill a 20th-level fighter feat slots (did anyone manage to make an even barely competent 20th-level fighter using only the 3.5E PHB?)
Hello,
does anybody have some clues if the monk will make it now to the 4th Edition or not?I hade to speculate.
I have seen many different post from wotc.But nobody could give a real answer.Some said: all classes will appear someday or no not a martial striker. That did not design class yet....
So somebody knows something i don´t?
kindly regards Julien.
Hello mightyjules.
The monk is not appearing in the Player's Handbook 1, and it is unlikely to appear in the Player's Handbook 2. WotC has said that the PHB2 is going to contain the base classes for the Primal and Psionic power sources, along with the last few divine and arcane classes (like the Bard).
The current thought is that the Monk will be striker, with possibly some area of affect attacks like a controller (sonnic based Ki shouts, round house kicks, etc.) They will probably appear along side the Samurai, Ninja, and Shugenja in the Player's Handbook 3 as part of the Eastern themed Chi/Anscestor Power source.
WotC has said they want DM's who are designing their own world to be able to include or exlcude a wide range of power sources based onthe theme of their setting. By grouping all the eastern themed base classes into a single power source, DM's will have the option of including or excluding the eastern themed parts of the game with ease.
So, the Monk will appear in 4th edition, it may just be a while before they make an appearance.
but I'd rather have a PHB with 8 classes, 500 class powers, 150 feats, and progression up to level 30... than a PHB with 11 classes which doesn't provide even enough feats to fill a 20th-level fighter feat slots (did anyone manage to make an even barely competent 20th-level fighter using only the 3.5E PHB?)
Fair enough.
I don't fault the quality of WotC's work -- they seem to be doing a fantastic job. I'm just disappointed some of the things I want are gone.
And I suspect the new rules will allow players to make a cool martial-arts fighter build.
WotC has said that the PHB2 is going to contain the base classes for the Primal and Psionic power sources...
Psionics just won't go away >:/
My group and I don't use them, and we've always gotten the impression that they're a fringe interest among gamers. Am I completely wrong?
Off-topic, but Teiran's post makes me wonder :)
Well.. but I'd rather have a PHB with 8 classes, 500 class powers, 150 feats, and progression up to level 30... than a PHB with 11 classes which doesn't provide even enough feats to fill a 20th-level fighter feat slots (did anyone manage to make an even barely competent 20th-level fighter using only the 3.5E PHB?)
Yes, quite competent. Unless of course you mean, "Competent: Easily overpower all the broken Complete book classes, feats, and items that raised the power curve immensely."
As for Psionics, I enjoy including them to a modest extent. 1st edition style was nice.
Fair enough.I don't fault the quality of WotC's work -- they seem to be doing a fantastic job. I'm just disappointed some of the things I want are gone.
And I suspect the new rules will allow players to make a cool martial-arts fighter build.
That's a fair sentiment Tatter. I would really love to see the Druid in 4th edition this June, but I guess I'm just willing to sacrifice that in favor of making the game truely solid overall.
I think we'd all like to see the second and third Player's Handbook come out sooner then they are going to.
Psionics just won't go away >:/
My group and I don't use them, and we've always gotten the impression that they're a fringe interest among gamers. Am I completely wrong?
Off-topic, but Teiran's post makes me wonder :)
Not that off topic, this thread is about what classes will and won't be in 4th edition after all, and what kinds of themes are or are not fringe. You coudl make a arguement thatthe monk, and his eastern class associates are fringe, just like you canmake that arguement for Psionics.
However, I know there is a deep core of players who love those themes and classes a whole lot. Psionics, eastern classes, dragon based races, things like these inspire a serious love in some gamers and a general apithy in other. But enough people want to play them that WotC needs to respond to those desires. They did that with the dragonborn after all, giving the people who dearly love playing a drgaon based PC a very solid option in 4th edition.
There will be support for the Psionics power source, because it is a very important power source, especially in the Ebberon setting, which is their second flagship setting. You'll see good support for Psionics, but no more then any other power source. (I expect there to be more Martial, Divine, and Arcane support then any other sources.)
But I think that you'll find that 4th edition, while supporting them, also helps you in your dislike of Psionics. The whole Power Source/Class Role dynamic will allow you to say "No, I do not want anyone to play Psionics. that power source is unavailable." Or you can do it with Divinve, or Arcane, whatever power source you want to leave out, without breaking or fundimentally changing the way the game mechanics work.
All of the power sources will likely have a class which fullfills each of the four roles, and thus it allows DM's to tailor thier campaign setting to what they want want to see being played.
I would expect monks to be in 4th Edition, just not during launch. It may be in PH2, it might be in PH3. It might be on DDI, seeing as the artificer will debut there soon after the release.
My group never really used monks except in a rare few cases. It wasnt because they werent appropriate thematically, it was because they suck as a class. They arent particularly useful in any situation, but with the right conditions can be more or less passable.
Anyway, I dont think that D&D needs to adhere to a certain style (European), so I dont have a problem with monks or other traditional asian-themed classes. Eberron had samurai as an order of Cyran knights, or something along those lines, and I did a dwarf samurai who didnt have a hint of asian culture on him and used a greataxe instead of a katana.
As for psionics, its certainly more than a "fringe" group, since Wizards decided to make three books for psionics, and one of them was an overhaul of the whole system. I think that there will be more psionic support since they arent using multiple systems for each different spellcasting mechanic (psionics, incarnum, truenaming, etc): its all based on the same power system that uses the same basic math as a guideline.
As Teiran has said, another perk is the clear division of power sources, allowing a DM to say no to one power source, or even give everyone a bonus divine at-will power in a game with a heavy religious theme.
When the first Psionic's Handbook was announced for 3.0 I heard similiar murmurs Tat. Many wondered if there was really that big of a demand for it. Apparently there is since they went on to make two more Psionic books for 3.5, and have already started talking about bringing it into 4E. It seems Psionic's fanbase grows with every edition, but perhaps that is just my biased perception.
I've always enjoyed Psionics, and always toyed with the notion of running a game with absolutely no spell casters, just Psions. It was never really viable though, at least not with some serious kit bashing, until 4E. This has pleased me greatly.
I agree that Monks will make it into 4E, but probably either in an Asian themed Power Source (as Teiren speculated) or possibly as a Martial class from an Asian themed future sourcebook (I'd put money on Teiren's guess though).
Cheers! :)
I think one of the problems with psionics was that many people perceived it to be broken. In 2nd Edition, I might be inclined to agree, though I didnt use it often then. In 3rd Edition, I would argue that it was too weak during its first iteration. The second time around, it seemed to work a LOT better.
4th Edition seems to promise to be balanced from the get-go. I think its getting more widely accepted, myself, so its a logical step.
Don't forget the psionics of 1E ... your character had a random chance to possess a psionic ability (2E retained this as well) and if they did, that ability was itself randomly determined.
1st level Fighters with Detonate for the win! :P
All I remember was that there was a specific number that if you rolled, it would give you major benefits. I did that once with animal affinity and grew wings and claws for an entire fight. It was cool at the time, but I could see that random super-power being a hassle for DMs.